Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: 7:38-40
Quote:
I have started reading Quran on regular basis now, I wish I continue doing so. And also wondering why did I started it from the middle, sura 7. Can you please explain me 7.38 - 7.40 (where Allah said ' you all shall be doubly punished...)
Salam dear brother
Thanks for asking me this Quran question, I believe I replied to something similar ages ago but could not find my comment so I have to start from square one again, I actually replied to someone on FFI to something that may relates to 7:40, let me bring the verses in here and do my normal walkthrough:
38: He will say: Enter into fire among the nations that have passed away before you from among jinn and men; whenever a nation shall enter, it shall curse its sister, until when they have all come up with one another into it; the last of them shall say with regard to the foremost of them: Our Lord! these led us astray therefore give them a double chastisement of the fire. He will say: Every one shall have double but you do not know.
39: And the foremost of them will say to the last of them: So you have no preference over us; therefore taste the chastisement for what you earned.
40: Surely (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through the eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty. [The Quran ; 7:38-40]
قَالَ ادْخُلُواْ فِي أُمَمٍ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِكُم مِّن الْجِنِّ وَالإِنسِ فِي النَّارِ كُلَّمَا دَخَلَتْ أُمَّةٌ لَّعَنَتْ أُخْتَهَا حَتَّى إِذَا ادَّارَكُواْ فِيهَا جَمِيعًا قَالَتْ أُخْرَاهُمْ لأُولاَهُمْ رَبَّنَا هَؤُلاء أَضَلُّونَا فَآتِهِمْ عَذَابًا ضِعْفًا مِّنَ النَّارِ قَالَ لِكُلٍّ ضِعْفٌ وَلَكِن لاَّ تَعْلَمُونَ (38)
وَقَالَتْ أُولاَهُمْ لأُخْرَاهُمْ فَمَا كَانَ لَكُمْ عَلَيْنَا مِن فَضْلٍ فَذُوقُواْ الْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْسِبُونَ (39)
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُواْ بِآيَاتِنَا وَاسْتَكْبَرُواْ عَنْهَا لاَ تُفَتَّحُ لَهُمْ أَبْوَابُ السَّمَاء وَلاَ يَدْخُلُونَ الْجَنَّةَ حَتَّى يَلِجَ الْجَمَلُ فِي سَمِّ الْخِيَاطِ وَكَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُجْرِمِينَ (40)
The verse above are talking about a future event after the Judgment is finalised and the order is given for those who are unjust to enter Hell
The situation here is horrific for all those destined to the Hell, therefore each group enters Hell blames the group that just entered before, as if they inherited their flaws so they should be held responsible, and it is true that the flaw in the religion is inherited between the nations, look at the Christians and the Muslims hadith worshippers for example, they fit like a glove, both religions flawed themselves over periods of 2000 and 1400 years and they are continuing hard in the same path, if we take the hadith worshippers for example, imagine that they will be held responsible for taking laws from humans that are not sanctioned by Allah, when they will be surprised with such crime, they must blame Bukhari because they inherited such flaw from him. All along they refuse to use their minds and just take bukhari words as if it is another divine source of kitab and wisdom
After this intro, let me now walk through the 3 verses above:
-> Verse 7:38, is telling us the fact about the nations who are unjust entering hell one after another: He will say: Enter into fire among the nations that have passed away before you from among jinn and men;, now when every nation enters hell, it blames the nation before it as I explained earlier: whenever a nation shall enter, it shall curse its sister, the word ?????????????????????¢??sister?????????????????????¢?? here is a metaphor to imply another nations that is following what another nations followed, now when the last nation enters hell, they will also blame the foremost nation who entered hell, this is because they think the flaw was inherited from them all along: until when they have all come up with one another into it; the last of them shall say with regard to the foremost of them: Our Lord! these led us astray therefore give them a double chastisement of the fire., they are just freaking out, however they are right that they inherited the flaw from the previous nations, however that is not an excuse because by them doing so they earned double the punishment, the same goes for the nations before them they also earned double the punishment, let me explain further:
A) The nations who mislead others by passing on flawed information regarding the religions of Allah, they earned double punishment because of the following:
i) a punishment for being flawed
ii) another punishment for contributing to mislead others after them
B) The nations who followed other flawed nations, they earned double punishment because of the following:
i) A punishment for being flawed
ii) Another punishment for not using their brains and followed others blindly
That is why I believe Allah said the following: He will say: Every one shall have double but you do not know., of course what I said is a conjecture against Allah that He never said, however what He said that both will have double the punishment, and that must happen regardless of the reasons behind it that I tried to understand
-> Verse 7:39, now the foremost nation will get angry from those nations after them who are cursing them so they will try to defend themselves by saying that they had no power over them, and they must be punished because they should have used their brains: And the foremost of them will say to the last of them: So you have no preference over us; therefore taste the chastisement for what you earned.
-> Verse 7:40, is not actually related to the above rather a fact said by Allah that those kafiroon will never enter Jannah until the camel passes through the hole of the needle, some suggested that 7:40 means that the kafiroon will never enter Jannah, however others believe (I?????????????????????¢??m one of them) that Allah in no way will speak in a sarcastic manner, sort of they will not enter Jannah until pigs can fly, indeed Allah can make the pigs fly and most certainly can make a camel to pass through the eye of the needle, i.e. I believe that one day after the kafirs spend ages in the hell fire, Allah will bring a camel and a needle and make the camel to pass through its eye, and in this case Allah words came true and in this case He can allow them to enter Jannah: Surely (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through te eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty.
Again the above is a conjecture against Allah, however what hit me hard that I found similar passages in the bible, have a look at this:
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. [Matthew ; 19:24]
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. [Mark ; 10:25]
For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. [Luke ; 18:25]
See, it seems to me that it is a fact more than a sarcastic speech
Thank you very much for walking me through.
What a creature, what a creature! even after the judgement humans wont stop the blame game. These very humans complaing to God about others, must be firon type. God forbid person like will be so heartbroken, ashamed, terrifed that not a word will comeout from mouth.
7.40 is fasinating, i have been thinking all day about it. Could it be Mutashabihat verse, giving false hope to kafir/wrongdoer. I was browsing quran on 'hell' and 4.169 says 'will abide forever'. Can you please shed some light brother.
إِلاَّ طَرِيقَ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَداً وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللّهِ يَسِيراً
4.169 . Except the road of hell , wherein they will abide for ever . And that is ever easy for Allah.
Posted:
Wed 05 Dec, 2007 12:08 pm
Rigel Pawn
Status:
Faith:
Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 110
Post subject:
Does this means hell is forever ?
Posted:
Sun 09 Dec, 2007 1:36 am
IntellectualWarfare1 Knight
Status: Age: 35 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 68
Post subject:
I always thought that the "double punishment" described in this verse was:
1. The anguish they feel when they are thrown into the Hell-Fire
2. The anguish they feel when they know that Allah rejected them for eternity and that they are eternally deprived from Allah's Mercy
That would constitute as double punishment in my opinion, but I also believe that the Kafirs will never ever enter the Paradise, unless I am mistaken, but it seems pretty clear to me that no Kafir will ever enter the Paradise, because Allah always says in the Quran, "خليدين فيه ابد" which constitutes eternity _________________ Islam will overcome
Posted:
Sun 09 Dec, 2007 7:51 am
Rigel Pawn
Status:
Faith:
Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 110
Post subject:
Quote:
2. The anguish they feel when they know that Allah rejected them for eternity and that they are eternally deprived from Allah's Mercy
Maybe not, even to be in hell forever is Allah's mercy because he has still kept their existance., they might want to die in hell but thats another story lol!
I feel there is more than normal concept of heaven and hell as places forever. If humans are given infinte life time then as per human nature to explore, the universe will be a smaller place. Then how will humans be content with heaven, wont they ask for more from Allah ?
Posted:
Sun 09 Dec, 2007 1:39 pm
IntellectualWarfare1 Knight
Status: Age: 35 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 68
Post subject:
Rigel wrote:
Quote:
2. The anguish they feel when they know that Allah rejected them for eternity and that they are eternally deprived from Allah's Mercy
Maybe not, even to be in hell forever is Allah's mercy because he has still kept their existance., they might want to die in hell but thats another story lol!
I feel there is more than normal concept of heaven and hell as places forever. If humans are given infinte life time then as per human nature to explore, the universe will be a smaller place. Then how will humans be content with heaven, wont they ask for more from Allah ?
Allah created Paradise so that the Believers will be in eternal rest and satisfaction, and I know that they never become bored. Allah creates an entire new Earth and Universe and I think that the pleasure will increase as time goes by. So I find it logical and alright.
Humans won't have any hatred and there hearts will be clean, so they won't be too greedy and selfish to keep demanding more from God. Paradise in itself is too great to imagine _________________ Islam will overcome
Posted:
Sun 09 Dec, 2007 2:46 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Rigel wrote:
Does this means hell is forever ?
Salam brother
We were told by Allah that hell and heaven will be eternal, however He still reserved His absolute right to remove any human or any jinn from both the eternal hell and the etrenal heaven.
In the following verses verse we read clearly that the losers will abide in hell unless Allah wants something else to happen, WHY? Again, this is what He wants:
106: Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs:
107: Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends. [The Quran ; 11:106-107]
فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ شَقُواْ فَفِي النَّارِ لَهُمْ فِيهَا زَفِيرٌ وَشَهِيقٌ (106)
خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَاء رَبُّكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ فَعَّالٌ لِّمَا يُرِيدُ (107)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, this is because :?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The above is confirmed again, the losers will abide in hell unless Allah wants otherwise:
And on the day when He shall gather them all together: O assembly of jinn! you took away a great part of mankind. And their friends from among the men shall say: Our Lord! some of us profited by others and we have reached our appointed term which Thou didst appoint for us. He shall say: The fire is your abode, to abide in it, except as Allah is pleased; surely your Lord is Wise, Knowing. [The Quran ; 6:128]
وَيَوْمَ يِحْشُرُهُمْ جَمِيعًا يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ قَدِ اسْتَكْثَرْتُم مِّنَ الإِنسِ وَقَالَ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُم مِّنَ الإِنسِ رَبَّنَا اسْتَمْتَعَ بَعْضُنَا بِبَعْضٍ وَبَلَغْنَا أَجَلَنَا الَّذِيَ أَجَّلْتَ لَنَا قَالَ النَّارُ مَثْوَاكُمْ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللّهُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ حَكِيمٌ عَليمٌ (128)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? He shall say: The fire is your abode, to abide in it, except as Allah is pleased;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The winners also will abide in the heaven unless Allah wants otherwise:
And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off. [The Quran ; 11:108]
وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ سُعِدُواْ فَفِي الْجَنَّةِ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَاء رَبُّكَ عَطَاء غَيْرَ مَجْذُوذٍ (108)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Rigel wrote:
Maybe not, even to be in hell forever is Allah's mercy because he has still kept their existance., they might want to die in hell but thats another story lol!
Salam brother
Actually to die is better than to live in hell, so being in hell can't be mercy from Allah, and as you said they will actually want to die:
And they shall call out: O Malik! let your Lord make an end of us. He shall say: you shall remain. [The Quran ; 43:77]
وَنَادَوْا يَا مَالِكُ لِيَقْضِ عَلَيْنَا رَبُّكَ قَالَ إِنَّكُم مَّاكِثُونَ (77)
-> Malik is the name of the chief angel of hell, the hell residents will ask him to seek from Allah to kill them: And they shall call out: O Malik! let your Lord make an end of us., however the reply will be: He shall say: you shall remain.
In another location we read that the hell residents before even entering the hell yet, they will wish the their death on earth was the end and they are never resurrected:
25: And as for him who is given his book in his left hand he shall say: Oh, would that I had not been given my book
26: And knew not what my reckoning!
27: Ah! Would that (Death) had made an end of me! [The Quran ; 69:25-27]
وَأَمَّا مَنْ أُوتِيَ كِتَابَهُ بِشِمَالِهِ فَيَقُولُ يَا لَيْتَنِي لَمْ أُوتَ كِتَابِيهْ (25)
وَلَمْ أَدْرِ مَا حِسَابِيهْ (26)
يَا لَيْتَهَا كَانَتِ الْقَاضِيَةَ (27)
-> See how they will wish that death on earth was the end of it and they are never resurrected : he shall say: O would that my book had never been given me:, And I had not known what my account was:, Ah! Would that (Death) had made an end of me!
Rigel wrote:
I feel there is more than normal concept of heaven and hell as places forever. If humans are given infinte life time then as per human nature to explore, the universe will be a smaller place.
Actually the Quran clearly told us that the heaven WIDTH is equal to the WIDTH of the heaven and earth, that is TOO HUGE btw, yet it is ITS WIDTH, imagine its length then, imaging that it is a rectangular shape
Rigel wrote:
Then how will humans be content with heaven, wont they ask for more from Allah ?
The Quran clearly stated the following regarding the heaven residents:
1) They will never get bored
2) Whatever they ask for, will be granted, I will leave this to your imagination mate
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT + 10 Hours Ported for PHP-Nuke by nukemods.com
