www.free-islam.com

Bring it on - Replies to 'My last post on FM' thread
- Thu 19 Oct, 2006 5:16 pm
Post subject: Replies to 'My last post on FM' thread
jankren wrote:

I understand your opinion yet I believe extreme freedom of expression is one of the strengths of this site which makes it different than others.


Peace

I actually learnt this freedom from an anti islam web site, however I will allow anything to go on here with moderation, but I will never tolerate mocking Allah, His prophets, His book, and His house, like enquirer always does on FM

now for your belief that FM is allowing the freedom of expression...., hmmm thanks for the laugh Laughing Laughing Laughing , this is the illusion you are living, the facts and reality is something far away than that illusion, I only witnessed freedom on FM given to the non mulsims, those muslims who sincerely oppose the non sense posted daily like brother Nobel and Al Quraishi in there by many ignorants, are dealt with differently, biased moderators always on their toes when those poor muslims express their opposing views strongly, well, this is what you expect when a muslim webmaster put non muslims who deny the existance of Mohammad in a moderation position and wow they are moderating the Msulims who oppose this non sense, is this the freedom your are talking about bro or what? or you mean mocking Allah, His Quran and His prophets?, well please let me know because of this what you are looking for then this ain't gonna happen on FI, however I still welcome you to join FI

jankren wrote:

Anyway, ciao bro!


Thanks a lot bro
- Thu 19 Oct, 2006 5:34 pm
Post subject:
Andya Primanda wrote:

You're gone?


Salam brother

Yeh mate, the decision was taken a month ago and I fulfilled Alhamdullellah

Andya Primanda wrote:

Too bad, Ahmed, I like your views...


Thanks bro, i hope you continue to read it in here, this place will run differently man and this is what i always wanted to do for 2 years roughly and never had the chance and the time, now it finally happened and the good thing is brother that I set it all myself and even hosting it myself including sql,mail, backup and more, later on if my bandwidth did
not cope i will host it some where in the states

Andya Primanda wrote:

Maybe if you cool down a bit then you'll be able to rejoin us.



it is not about anger bro, I'm actually very cool, but always expect that i will be myself not pretend to be someone else, it is all about being in a place where it allows Ayaat Allah to be mocked, Allah clearly warned us in the Quran that we should leave the places where His signs are being mocked otherwise we are nothing but hypocrites like them, and surely after almost a year and more than 3000 comments on FM, it became evident that this place is ran by someone who is considering humans feeling more than considering what Allah is warning us in His Quran, he is following some stupid rules that he made on his own and forcing it on Muslims while allowing the non Muslims to come and mock Allah, all the Muslims, His Quran and all the prophets, he should be ashamed of himself and as far as I'm concerned he is a disgrace to all Muslims



Andya Primanda wrote:

Please don't go out and make your own sect.


Laughing Laughing bro, nice one, well, this is something that I can assure myself 100% that it will never happened, hmmm, those who do that bro use charm to reach people, do you see me charming? Haha

Take care bro
- Thu 19 Oct, 2006 5:44 pm
Post subject:
drshabeer wrote:

Peace Brothers n Sisters..


Peace Brother

drshabeer wrote:

United We stand.. Divided We Fall...


Exactly bro and inshaallah free-islam will unite its members against those who attack and manipulate then hijack our great religion

drshabeer wrote:

But Why was he Banned.?



This is a long story and inshaallah will be detailed in here to expose the truth

drshabeer wrote:

I had read some informative Articles from Brother Ahmed...


Thanks bro, and i hope you will find more to read in here, i yet to reach my peak brother and now I'm not under the mercy of some confused webmasters, at least I can assure you that you will never see me confused as a webmaster


drshabeer wrote:

And sometimes Good Criticisms...


Actually I'm always in the favour of good criticisms but not mocking, however if you mock then you have to give me a chance to mock, see an eye of an eye brother

drshabeer wrote:

This should not have happened here....

Shabeer


That is, if the place is managed by non confused Mulsims

Take care brother
- Thu 19 Oct, 2006 11:10 pm
Post subject: Re:
Selam brother AB

A new beginning Smile
It should not have heppened but it happened and sometimes the happenings are the means for a new start as in the case of yours. I only hope and pray that Allah will reward and support you.

Peace,
FJ
- Fri 20 Oct, 2006 12:30 am
Post subject: Re:
Fati wrote:
Selam brother AB

A new beginning Smile
It should not have heppened but it happened and sometimes the happenings are the means for a new start as in the case of yours. I only hope and pray that Allah will reward and support you.

Peace,
FJ


Thanks a lot dear brother

They deleted that thread man, this is the fake freedom they are talking about, they proved to be worse than the sunni cult

Take care
- Fri 20 Oct, 2006 5:04 am
Post subject: A question?
Peace

Bro AB is there a way to delete a post or is this option available to you only. I posted the same post twice unintentionally and wanted to delete but could not find the way to do that.

Peace
Fati
- Fri 20 Oct, 2006 9:13 am
Post subject: Re: A question?
Fati wrote:
Peace

Bro AB is there a way to delete a post or is this option available to you only. I posted the same post twice unintentionally and wanted to delete but could not find the way to do that.

Peace
Fati


Salam mate

I will look into this bro and I will give the members permissions to delete their comments inshaallah

Take care
- Sat 21 Oct, 2006 11:49 pm
Post subject:
Peace bro Ahmed,

Good to see you have your own site now, hopefully, I will add my bit in various discussions. You might already know me, as I'm one of the oft-hated mods on FM.

Just to clarify, your thread wasn't deleted but can be found in the Forum Suggestions category. Good luck with your site, I look forward to your insights and your understanding regarding certain subjects.

Nadya
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 8:17 am
Post subject:
hey SC. So how do you like this place.
Not to shabby I must say.
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 9:11 am
Post subject:
I like it here phoenix, it's quite good. Hopefully more people will start contributing, I'm looking forward to seeing the fireworks that kinda follow bro Ahmed wherever he goes. If there's action I'm there.
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 9:29 am
Post subject:
Atreides wrote:
Peace bro Ahmed,

Good to see you have your own site now, hopefully, I will add my bit in various discussions. You might already know me, as I'm one of the oft-hated mods on FM.

Just to clarify, your thread wasn't deleted but can be found in the Forum Suggestions category. Good luck with your site, I look forward to your insights and your understanding regarding certain subjects.

Nadya


Thank you very much sister

I hope Allah directs us all to make this site a place for many to express their views and learn more about the Arabic Quran

Thank you for letting me know about my thread, i will check and see if there is more replies

I hope that you are aware that I have no hard feelings towards FM, i'm only upset because the webmaster tried hard to find unjustifiable reasons to ban me to stop my voice from reaching others, his only agenda was to stop me from providing the compelling Quran evidneces that refutes many of the concepts promoted in there, may Allah forgive him

I donlt need luck dear sister in here, i want the brothers and sisters to join me to make this place a success, its success is nothing but to provide a well supported quranic information that help all of us understanding our great religion better

Take care
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 9:32 am
Post subject:
Atreides wrote:
I like it here phoenix, it's quite good. Hopefully more people will start contributing, I'm looking forward to seeing the fireworks that kinda follow bro Ahmed wherever he goes. If there's action I'm there.



LOL sister, i really wonder why this fireworks always follow me, i'm actually a very peaceful human, i just have a sort of an attiude when I debate others, my attiude may look bad but the truth is, it is not that bad, LOL, I'm really being myself in every apsect of my life, small or big, i can't pretend to be something else while it is not me, i found it very hard to do really

you will see me here not like you may see me on libertyunites.us, but here i will be very close if not identical to how I was on FM

i found the shortest road for the truth is actually to be truthful and be yourself

Cheers
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 11:02 am
Post subject:
salaam ahmed,

it's me, rifat. your web site looks really good. nice job. do you know why you got banned by "magi" for a month. i was not active at the moment you received the ban. why???

peace, rifat
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 11:29 am
Post subject:
pikachu wrote:
salaam ahmed,

it's me, rifat. your web site looks really good. nice job. do you know why you got banned by "magi" for a month. i was not active at the moment you received the ban. why???

peace, rifat



Welcome brother

I'm delighted that you joined us, I hope you find this place as you expect and if not we will work togther to make it as all expect

I will discuss my unfair banning in great details mate i just need to collect a few evidences before i tell my story

take care man and thanks again for joing FI
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 12:52 pm
Post subject:
rifat wrote:
salaam, everyone,
from my perspective, Mr. Ahmed baghat seemed a little on the "traditional" side.


Salam bro

I believe you got this wrong big times, firstly it does not mean that I accepted a lot of what the sunni do that I'm on their side, I'm not on any human's side other than my sincere Muslim brothers and sisters if they are under the attack by any non muslim, this is what Allah told me to do in His Quran and I'm always on the Quran side if you want to describe me of taking a side, now my acceptance to a lot of what the sunni follow does not mean that I follow them, it only means that I qualified many things of what they followed and according to the Quran it fits like a glove, I'm not trying to invent anything in my religions because simply Allah told us in His Quran that it is complete, so it is all a matter of following the Quran not following the confused humans

rifat wrote:

(nothing wrong with practicing and setting up an example for others but something wrong when you refute others with a mind of injustice and arrogant assertiveness.),


hmmm, if people come and say that I'm Mushrik because I go to Mecca, why you want to deny me the right to defend that especially when I provide compelling evidences from the Quran that demolish their non sense of accusing almost 1.5 billion Muslims of being Idol worshippers and Pagans?

It is them who are arrogant to insist on non sense that only confuses the young Muslims who yet to know everything about the religion, it them the arrogant and the ignorant who manipulate the language to serve their low agenda which is nothing but confusing more Muslims and dividing them, you want me to see this crime happening on my eyes by so called Muslims and stand still, it will never happen bro, I will be tough even with the closest person to me if they commit this crime, I don't hold a gun to their head I only use my freedom of speech within limit to prove them wrong and sure embarrass them, they have to be embarrassed indeed because if you promote an unfounded theory '???????????like Mohammad is a metaphor'???? then I will bloody embarrass you when I get the evidences, this is the human law brother, it happens at courts everyday, either the lawyers or the prosecutors trying hard to embarrass someone to prove them wrong, and this is how I see any religious debate, sorry, those who are faint hearted should not be involved in a religious debate, they should only watch it and ask questions not to bloody debate serious matters that may lead to eternal hell

rifat wrote:

i hate the idea of calling people kafirs! it is absurd and illogical because your insults has no influence on whether i can breath or not.


I'm sorry dear brother, this is you own personal problem that you need to resolve which does not apply to many Muslims nor it applies to the laws of Allah:

1: Say : O Kafiroon (ye that reject Faith!)
\
2: I worship not that which ye worship,

3: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

6: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
[The Quran ; 109]

بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ (1)
لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ (2)
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (3)
وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ (4)
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (5)
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ (6)

-> So why you are ignoring Allah words dear Rifat?, this is the whole sura brother, let me walk you through it:

-> Verse 1, wow brother it starts by telling the prophet TO SAY '???????????Say : O Kafiroon (ye that reject Faith!)'???? , so in your eyes Allah is ordering the prophet to commit :

1) absurdity
2) illogical
3) insult

This is what your words mean brother, but let me tell you man, sura 9 is a friendly dialogue between the prophet and the kafiroon, those kafiroon who reject faith, those kafiroon who reject what Allah says in the His Quran, so they earned the label Kafiroon, so why you consider labelling them as such is absurd, illogical and an insults?

-> Yeh I always say it, the truth hurts, but this is what they choose to do, they are rejectors, they are bloody kafiroon, what is wrong with that man?

-> If those Kafiroon leave us alone so we have no problem in hand but they come and tell us that our religion is wrong, they come and tell us we are worshipping a book, then we tell them the following:

-> verse 2, '????I worship not that which ye worship,'????

-> verse 3, '????Nor will ye worship that which I worship.'????

-> verse 4: '????And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, '????

-> verse 5: ['????Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve: '????

-> verse 6: '????You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion. '????

BUT THEY KEEP COMING TO FLAW OUR RELIGION, LIKE ENQUIRER AND HIS CRIMES AGAINST THE MUSLIMS ON FM PROPAGANDA STAGE

So you will be happy for a Kafir like Enquirer to come to you an keep mocking your religion and calling him kafir is a crime in your eyes, bro it seems you got the other way around somehow, sorry to tell you that

All I did , I joined a post about the Kabba '???????????The house of Allah'???? to reply to Enquirer constant mocking to it and to All Muslims, I will look for that thread if it was not deleted by FM web master and post every word I said in here including that Kafir words, and let me see where I got it wrong, but I won't accept your argument that calling someone who clear signs of Kufr and rejection a Kafir because as far as sura 109 goes, it is OK to call them as such

rifat wrote:

if Ahmed called someone i know "kafir" he had the right to be banned.


No bro it is not right that I was banned, because I called someone as such who is a clear cut kafir who is in constant attack on Islam and Muslims, look bro if this upset you, I'm sorry but I will continue to defend my Muslims brothers and sisters against the Kafiroon who come and mock our religion, if they leave us in peace I will be happy even to be a friend with a Kafir

now what should be another crime is to simply support a kafir against a Muslim brother who was defending against the kafir mocking against the house of Allah, I didn't attack that kafir for nothing, I attacked him after seeing how the thread reached 3 pages and that kafir continue to mock the house of Allah without anyone calling him/her self a Muslim standing up to defend the house of Allah from mocking by a Kafir, so I stood up and even risked to be banned thinking that a so called Muslim web master will never bann me because I was defending the Kabba, but because the web master has double standard and because he does not see the kabba as the house of Allah he bloody banned me, this really hurt me bad then resorted to Allah for help to take me out of the pain I felt and He guided me to this and I thank Him dearly because this is what I wanted to do for years, it is really true that verse that says, '???????????Don't hate something that may look bad and indeed it is something good'????, but even if the ending was good to me it will still not wave the wrong that Muslim webmaster did to me,

rifat wrote:

but what hot button issue made him react to this level?


for three pages he kept mocking the kabba and I refrained myself from responding because that is what I always do with him, just ignore him, but that was too much and we as Muslims looked like cowards, I was hoping that a Muslim or a Moderator to stand up and it never happened for three pages so I stood up and paid unfairly for it, but I'm really happy with the outcome and will try to use it for the better but not after exposing the detaisls of that incident so all are aware of the truth

rifat wrote:

only Allah has the full use and power to label kafir,


wrong:

1: Say : O Kafiroon (ye that reject Faith!)

2: I worship not that which ye worship,

3: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

6: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
[The Quran ; 109]

بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ (1)
لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ (2)
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (3)
وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ (4)
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (5)
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ (6)


-> see how the sura start by the word '???????????SAY'????, it is not Allah to say it in here, it is the prophet to say it

rifat wrote:

otherwise from the perspective of Allah, it is meaningless because we do not decide which chemicals combine with which, it is Allah that decides!

peace, rifat


Not sure what you mean here?, but I'm talking about the human prespective in here, here it is in a simple manner:

1) someone declares the rejection of the Quran
2) that one is labelled kafir '???????????logically speaking'????
3) if that one leave us in peace, then the Quran orders us to be peaceful to them
4) if they come and try to tell us that our religion is wrong then we should tell them:


1: Say : O Kafiroon (ye that reject Faith!)

2: I worship not that which ye worship,

3: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

6: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
[The Quran ; 109]

بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ (1)
لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ (2)
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (3)
وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَّا عَبَدتُّمْ (4)
وَلَا أَنتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (5)
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ (6)


Peace Brother
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 1:03 pm
Post subject:
Magi wrote:
Peace
His behaviour and way to adresss other people got him banned. I wont go into detail, as he is not here to defend himself. The last thing Islam needs are more selfrightious mullahs. Nomatter if it is Quran alone or not.


A typical rant by a clear cut Satan follower

But hey don't you ever dare and call me a Mullah Laughing , try to find one then shove it somewhere
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 1:11 pm
Post subject:
phoenix1 wrote:

Peace Ahmed,
Good job with the new website.


Thanks bro, and I'm glad you joined us

phoenix1 wrote:

You shouldn't have left. I can't say that some of the comments you posted were fine,


please brong some here and confront me with it, but not on its own please, try to get the whole and complete dialogue

phoenix1 wrote:

but we will miss the good points you had to add to the discussions.


not really bro, because what ever I posted there will be posted here, I have al my 3000 commenst on my laptop

phoenix1 wrote:

I know that it hurts when someone "attacks" what we believe is true. But we have to realize that they too strongly believe in what they believe.


Not it does not hurt me, it actually make me stronger to fight back, but when I fight back they are the ones that feel the hurt, I just don't get it with them really

phoenix1 wrote:

We cannot assume to know everything. We cannot act arrogantly. Act like we are never wrong. Only God knows for sure.


Of course

phoenix1 wrote:
I asked Nabster if he thought that he was ever wrong. And he never answered that question. That, to me, is utter arrogance. And I have seen you act arrogantly as well.
So I'll ask you this question, Ahmed, can you ever be wrong?


Bloody many times, you can ask anne '???????????My wife'???? even when I'm right, I'm wrong in her eyes, LOL

Anyway if you mean religions only of course Ii was wrong many times, in fact sister Samia and brother Anwar got me red handed twice

What you will find straight forward in me is simply I will quickly concede that I made a mistake, this is what is tough to do with most and many of that most don't really do it even if they know in their heart that they were wrong, now with me I have no shame, I will concede my mistakes but you need to find them first then prove it
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 1:25 pm
Post subject:
Sorry guys this is a comment by someone I accused of double standards, just to show the confusion of FM:

it is from a thread called "The non-muslims of the forum" by brother JM

Danish was angry that he was mocked by a muslim named "Al Khidr", i guess "Al Khidr" is banned now, LOL, and as you all know that Mocking Allah, His prophets, His Quran and all Muslims is allowed on FM by the Kafiroon like Danish, Magi and Enquirer but mocking the Kafiroon in response is a crime, the web master of FM responded like this:

The webmaster of FM said:

Peace Danish,

I would respond to the people you have quoted with the following reminder:

`O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.` (49:11)


Ahmed says:

hahahahahahaha, bloody say it to those who mock the Muslims mister Muslim webmaster before you jump the gun and bloody ban the Muslims in favour of the Kafiroon

let me say this again to you man, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL MUSLIMS, may Allah guide you to the right path

Salam
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject:
Salam Sister Nadia

I manged to stop that scrolling for you mate, i searched the net for 3 hours and could not find an answer, then raised a question on a bonusnuke forum and could not wait for an answer so I went and checked hundeds of file with code that I hardly understand but being a VB programmar I manged to logically allocate it in a file called viewtopic_body.tpl, i was logically searching for the avatar thinking that it ust be under it, and when I found the word marquee it was bingo, but i was worried to just delete the action without testing it, so I found in the code the word up, changed to down and it scrolled down, that was another bingo, so i removed the line confidently and received the third bingo

enjoy mate, it looks much better indeed, thanks for the feed back, you made me learn a new thing indeed

Salam
- Sun 22 Oct, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject:
Peace bro Ahmed,

Np at all. I appreciate you taking the time to fix things like this.

I would like to add in response to the posts made about Layth on this thread, since he isn't here to defend himself:

Danish and enquirer have both been banned as well for their derogatory comments. Sometimes it takes time and some patience for them to cross the line irrevocably but it does happen. It might feel unjustified to us but it is across the board in the big picture. Danish was singing our praises one day and then when he got banned, he sent emails that show a different story.

I appreciate the fact that you say what you think and are honest about it, it might not be appropriate in some places the way you choose to convey it BUT there isn't any waffling or hypocrisy that I see from your end which has to be respected.

I wouldn't mind seeing some epic debates with Danish and enquirer on this forum but tbh, I doubt they can debate with any pretense of logic for it to be worth my time.
- Mon 23 Oct, 2006 3:22 am
Post subject:

salam bro.
1st, i would like to express my best wishes to all of you for the' eid fetr mubrak' Very Happy
2nd , i totaly agree with you to ignore those who dis-respect our prophet muhamed-pbuh-as they will realy pay for that Evil or Very Mad
3rd, and this is for- ahmed only - contact hamdy your cusin in usa.
see you soon.
- Mon 23 Oct, 2006 9:37 am
Post subject:
Salam Sis,

Quote:
I would like to add in response to the posts made about Layth on this thread, since he isn't here to defend himself:


Hes most welcome to come and have as many rounds of talks he wishes, or maybe he has henna on this hands lol!

Quote:
Danish and enquirer have both been banned as well for their derogatory comments. Sometimes it takes time and some patience for them to cross the line irrevocably but it does happen.


This makes it clearer that they were kept to distract Ahmed's attention because Layth couldnt stand critisim to his articles. Come on! Sister, its appearant that you folks ignored the complaints and kept your eyes close towards their behaviour and whenever bro Ahmed took stand he was warned/banned.

Quote:
It might feel unjustified to us but it is across the board in the big picture. Danish was singing our praises one day and then when he got banned, he sent emails that show a different story.


They were kept for a purpose ie to make Ahmed go and when he left, they were kicked. LOL! this is what bro Ahmed call tryant policy.

Quote:
I appreciate the fact that you say what you think and are honest about it, it might not be appropriate in some places the way you choose to convey it BUT there isn't any waffling or hypocrisy that I see from your end which has to be respected.


Here I agree with you in last couple of months on times bro Ahmed attitute wasnt appropriate BUT whos fault is it? I would say hypocritic attitute of fm. Number of times mquran complained and pointed the famous rule 2 of fm, who listened? many more examples but lets not agrue.

Quote:
I wouldn't mind seeing some epic debates with Danish and enquirer on this forum but tbh, I doubt they can debate with any pretense of logic for it to be worth my time.


So nice of you to say this, but sorry I never saw these kinda comments on fm from you.

Let me tell you, that there will be on admin/mod might abuse here on FI. Bro Ahmed and myself had loads of discussions on how FI mods will react and have a pretty good plan about it, its a matter of time and inshallah you will see FI one of the fairest islamic forum for muslims of all walks.

A very happy Eid to you and to your family!
- Mon 23 Oct, 2006 8:37 pm
Post subject:
Peace,

Quote:
Hes most welcome to come and have as many rounds of talks he wishes, or maybe he has henna on this hands lol!


I'm not sure what you mean by henna on his hands but let me clarify what I meant. I meant that since he is not here (for whatever reason) I would like to clarify statements made about him with what I know. He isn't very active on FM either and has difficulty logging in at times.

Quote:
This makes it clearer that they were kept to distract Ahmed's attention because Layth couldnt stand critisim to his articles. Come on! Sister, its appearant that you folks ignored the complaints and kept your eyes close towards their behaviour and whenever bro Ahmed took stand he was warned/banned.


This is not true. They have both been warned and banned previously as well and slunk away without telling anyone, that is why it never came to light to the general members.

Quote:
They were kept for a purpose ie to make Ahmed go and when he left, they were kicked. LOL! this is what bro Ahmed call tryant policy.


I see. You're welcome to your opinion but it is not true from what I know.

Quote:
Here I agree with you in last couple of months on times bro Ahmed attitute wasnt appropriate BUT whos fault is it? I would say hypocritic attitute of fm. Number of times mquran complained and pointed the famous rule 2 of fm, who listened? many more examples but lets not agrue.


Two wrongs do not make a right as I'm sure you are aware. Mq and I are in regular contact and he knows what happened with rule 2, when it was put and how it was utilised. Sometimes it takes time, especially with insidious people, who know how the system works and use that to slip under the cracks.

Quote:
So nice of you to say this, but sorry I never saw these kinda comments on fm from you.


I find this 'kinda' insulting. I have made many posts on FM, some of them were posting about these characters and how I despised their behaviour. I can give you examples if you wish, no one likes being called hypocritical. Sadly, when I was being taken to task for these comments and my actions I was called biased by the very same characters and no one there did stand up for it at the time except the mods themselves. It's all about perspective I suppose, one judges with what they see, sometimes they don't see the complete picture.

Quote:
Let me tell you, that there will be on admin/mod might abuse here on FI. Bro Ahmed and myself had loads of discussions on how FI mods will react and have a pretty good plan about it, its a matter of time and inshallah you will see FI one of the fairest islamic forum for muslims of all walks.


Let time be the test. Good luck.

Quote:
A very happy Eid to you and to your family!


Same to you.
- Mon 23 Oct, 2006 9:43 pm
Post subject:
Atreides wrote:
Peace bro Ahmed,


Peace sister Nadia

Atreides wrote:

Np at all. I appreciate you taking the time to fix things like this.


No worries, I'm still pulling my hair trying to get the flash, audio/video streaming and the rest of BBcode objects that you see when you post to work, even finding someone to do it with money is hard, I already asked one and i didn't hear from him yet, i hope i do

Atreides wrote:

I would like to add in response to the posts made about Layth on this thread, since he isn't here to defend himself:


That is why FI forum is open for the public to read, he can even join and refute me back the way he wishes, at least I can assure him that he won't be banned as he did with me while i was standing up for his religion

Atreides wrote:

Danish and enquirer have both been banned as well for their derogatory comments.


both are crying babies, there was no worse comments said to anyone as been said to me, even on FM, but I don't cry as they do, nor I ran to someone lese looking for a biased resolve as they do, I just take it like a man, really both means noting to me but I admit i have a lil bit of respect to Danish, and both are welcome to come here and raise their concerns and they will be slam dunked inshaallah

Atreides wrote:
Sometimes it takes time and some patience for them to cross the line irrevocably but it does happen.


the matter is simply this dear sister, they bloody keep repeating their non sense after it has been refuted, they are one of the main reason of the down fall of FM and the loss of many good quran students like brother Mquran and sister Myr for example

Atreides wrote:
It might feel unjustified to us but it is across the board in the big picture.


I see it more than an unjustifiable minor act, i see it as a crime against the Muslims who already are divided and confused because of the many who hijacked the religion, now we don't want some ignorant or arrogant to come and disturb a group of Muslims studying the Quran and trying hard to resolve that division and confusion that exist for decades, they can come and raise their concerns once and for all, if refuted, fair enough and if not refuted, also fair enough, but for them to keep repeating unfounded illusions, it will sure serve its purpose which is confusing the Muslims further and this act is actually blessed by FM webmaster as far I have seen for almost a year

Atreides wrote:
Danish was singing our praises one day and then when he got banned, he sent emails that show a different story.


A word "tough or Kind" to stop a perpetrator is quite enough as far as I can see it from a webmaster point of view, banning is tyrancy and an act of cowardice, look at what happened to that young man who got into trouble with Mquran '???????????¬I forgot his name, straight away he was banned for life, then sister peacefulmuslim tried hard to overturn the banning then no one listened , only they locked the thread and insisted on the life sentence given to him, another cowardly act,

Atreides wrote:
I appreciate the fact that you say what you think and are honest about it, it might not be appropriate in some places the way you choose to convey it BUT there isn't any waffling or hypocrisy that I see from your end which has to be respected.


one of the basics of my life is very simple rule, which is being straight forward with ALL PEOPLE, and that is how i made myself to be and I believe I will stay as is for the rest of my life seeing how many tried to change me and I could not, it removes a lot of pressure of my daily dose of pressure indeed, i don't need to think hard before I talk, it is all spontaneous and I'm aware of that and I like it, sure this may make me commit mistakes but who does not commit mistakes, what i hardly see is those who admit their mistakes and move forward for the better, if I talk differently to the dearest people to me then I'm biased, but believe me i talk even tougher to those dearest to me because I know well that they know they are dear to me

Atreides wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing some epic debates with Danish and enquirer on this forum but tbh, I doubt they can debate with any pretense of logic for it to be worth my time.


They are welcome to join FI, they will never be banned as it happened to them on FM, but what I want them to comply with is simply as what Mquran always asked them to do which is to respond to the refutes presented by other Muslim brothers and sisters, then they have the freedom to agree or disagree but they can't keep ranting about it, it just causes confusion to the Muslims, however and to be honest, I'm happy that they keep ranting about it until a Muslim reply to them with Logical Quran Evidences, but they are too arrogant to accept any logic presented that a child will comprehend and what they do after is simply ranting again and again and again, this is not going to happen on FI, yet i will not take any decision to what to do with them based on my own desires, rather on what the majority of the Muslim community here vote to do with them and yet I will not allow permanent banning or even lengthy one, because for me it is not constitutional to stop one for life from their freedom of speech


Take care sister and happy Eid
- Mon 23 Oct, 2006 10:19 pm
Post subject:
Peace bro Ahmed,

Quote:
No worries, I'm still pulling my hair trying to get the flash, audio/video streaming and the rest of BBcode objects that you see when you post to work, even finding someone to do it with money is hard, I already asked one and i didn't hear from him yet, i hope i do


You'll work it out, O master of VB! Razz

Quote:
That is why FI forum is open for the public to read, he can even join and refute me back the way he wishes, at least I can assure him that he won't be banned as he did with me while i was standing up for his religion

the matter is simply this dear sister, they bloody keep repeating their non sense after it has been refuted, they are one of the main reason of the down fall of FM and the loss of many good quran students like brother Mquran and sister Myr for example

I see it more than an unjustifiable minor act, i see it as a crime against the Muslims who already are divided and confused because of the many who hijacked the religion, now we don't want some ignorant or arrogant to come and disturb a group of Muslims studying the Quran and trying hard to resolve that division and confusion that exist for decades, they can come and raise their concerns once and for all, if refuted, fair enough and if not refuted, also fair enough, but for them to keep repeating unfounded illusions, it will sure serve its purpose which is confusing the Muslims further and this act is actually blessed by FM webmaster as far I have seen for almost a year

A word "tough or Kind" to stop a perpetrator is quite enough as far as I can see it from a webmaster point of view, banning is tyrancy and an act of cowardice, look at what happened to that young man who got into trouble with Mquran “I forgot his name”, straight away he was banned for life, then sister peacefulmuslim tried hard to overturn the banning then no one listened , only they locked the thread and insisted on the life sentence given to him, another cowardly act,

They are welcome to join FI, they will never be banned as it happened to them on FM, but what I want them to comply with is simply as what Mquran always asked them to do which is to respond to the refutes presented by other Muslim brothers and sisters, then they have the freedom to agree or disagree but they can't keep ranting about it, it just causes confusion to the Muslims, however and to be honest, I'm happy that they keep ranting about it until a Muslim reply to them with Logical Quran Evidences, but they are too arrogant to accept any logic presented that a child will comprehend and what they do after is simply ranting again and again and again, this is not going to happen on FI, yet i will not take any decision to what to do with them based on my own desires, rather on what the majority of the Muslim community here vote to do with them and yet I will not allow permanent banning or even lengthy one, because for me it is not constitutional to stop one for life from their freedom of speech


The running problems in all your quotes above are twofold brother. You say you don't want them banned YET you want them to comply. This is a contradiction in cases where someone does NOT want to comply. How will you make them? What if their arguments have been refuted time and time again and YET they keep at it which is what everyone is so pissed off at, as ruining the atmosphere and confusing new members? You can't have it both ways. There is no magic bullet to make people comply virtually. What we do after seeing that they are not interested in listening, is ban them after they have received ample warning (during which members start getting pissed that nothing is happening and they want them gone but they don't want to be the ones that do it, so someone has to step up to the plate).

Arguing with these types, serves NO purpose because they aren't interested in learning from your point of view, they are trolling for validation. That's it. If you want to take them on, eventually it regresses into a downward spiral of personal attacks, comments and rudeness which I despise. There is nothing constructive about that.

Mq talked about getting them to comply or be banned but this is not what you are saying, you don't want them banned. I agree with him, if they don't comply with the rules they get banned. Simply put. Sometimes it takes time, sometimes it's instantaneous in the past. The rules were revised to make it consistent since some time now. The young guy that PM was talking about had a sordid history that I became aware of which I can't talk about in public. It was justified that he got banned, I wouldn't want someone like that around either.

If you're going to go by the whims of the majority, it's up to you. I don't find that very practical and fair in practice because the members usually have an axe to grind against someone they have debated with and 'lost' or just don't like because of any given reason. How is that different from mods? They have a responsibility to show that those that they are kicking out have broken the rules multiple times during a particular time period and get other mods to look at it and to agree, otherwise it can't be done. The admin doesn't make that decision in FM, the mods do and then the admin checks to see if it is approved by different mods and they go through the process. That is why you can't personally have an axe to grind with someone and kick them out as you have to prove it.

Let's say you don't have many well defined rules here, then what will ensue is subjectivity to a greater degree when making a call as to whom you want out. This means that because I don't like someone's pov and 'cause I think they're childish I can vote them out if enough people agree with me which I can make sure happen if I'm on good enough terms with them. It's a popularity contest then as opposed to a fair judgement call on evidence.

Let's say they would vote for a ban for a troublesome member, you say you don't want a lengthy one so the time would be a week? They will be back and there will still be dissatisfaction and the same problems once again, until the members again sit down and decide, okay another week then, during which time those that don't like the atmosphere will leave as happened on FM and as happens on other boards where the mudslinging and general chaos doesn't suit some types.

Don't get me wrong, I wish all the best for the board but I dislike participating in atmospheres where flaming/chaos is rampant and abusive comments are directed to people in the meanwhile and where those that perpetrate such behaviour are not kicked out for good. Where I woud find a popularity contest deciding who stays and goes. You will find however that banning is suited for the majority of boards where people want smooth and efficient running. It is not 'unconstitutional' in the least because your forum is your domain where you have people who sign an agreement with you before they participate. I participate on many boards comprising of different genre's and banning is something preferred for obvious reasons.

Forgot to add, since i clicked the post button instead of preview, eid mubarak to you as well.
- Tue 24 Oct, 2006 12:04 am
Post subject:
Atreides wrote:
Peace bro Ahmed,


Peace sister Nadia

Atreides wrote:

You'll work it out, O master of VB! Razz


I wish it was VB sister, it is PHP and I absolutely have no knowledge in that department, the language looks simple after investigating its syntax but it will still take me at least 6 months to a year to master that language, what is motivating me to master it is simply this, part of what I do is design LAN applications, all MS SQL driven and almost now days all my clients require WAN connectivity to their LAN applications and this is hard to do unless you have a very fast WAN connection, like 10 MB/S at least , so I have to resort to further infrastructure and cost by implementing Windows 2003 Terminal server, and yet it is not as fast but it is very centralised in regards to management and this is a huge bonus on its own, if I master PHP then I can build all my lan applications using it due to the fact that php is designed with database connectivity in mind and as its heart, so running the php applications over a wan connection will be exactly like running this site, i.e. no need for any extra infrastructure and yet can be centrally managed through one web server sitting on the LAN, I hope I can do this actually, I looked at ebay for books and there are plenty so I have another challenge in hand, I already joined a few php communities but the one I'm using "BonusNuke" is new and hardly any support for it '???????????¬for the tough issues and many bugs i mean, sorry to bore you

Atreides wrote:
The running problems in all your quotes above are twofold brother.


LOL, thank you sister, I know you are a tough debater too

Atreides wrote:
You say you don't want them banned YET you want them to comply.


of course this can be done, because the webmaster always have some sort of respect by all members who don't know him/her, a decent word with them can make a huge difference and if it does not work then a tough word, even me when John '???????????¬the web master of LU asked me to slow down I always listened to him, I always carried respect to him as well as I did for the webmaster of FM, this is mutual in the world of forums it seems, on both web sites, malice campaigns ran by some whatever members wanting to ban me, on LU the non Muslim webmaster never listened to them, even confronted them, the Muslim webmaster however listened to them despite I was attacking a non Muslim who you know very well, who has just one agenda, so what I meant that I will never listen to those behind the back PMs stirring me on anyone Muslim or not trying to ban him, possibly one rule that may exist on FI that there will be no banning, other punishment can be enforced, like no pm or non ability to post for a period or no signature or not been able to play in the arcade, I went through the mods available for phpBB forums and wow there are zillions, a good strategy and some time are needed to come up with a decent plan to run public boards, and if a group make it together it is far better and fairer than a single tyrant in place, , depends on what the site offers of course, but I don't think after a webmaster have a word with any reasonable person that he/she will insist in what is considered wrong on that board

also the circumstances associated with a heated problem must be considered, because the human was created WEAK as Allah told us, so Allah knows well that we may get angry when injustice is done to us, therefore He excused us from uttering hurtful speech in public if injustice has occurred to anyone as we read in sura 4

If Allah excuses us when we utter hurtful speech in public if injustice is applied why a Muslim webmaster don't follow that guidance then?

I will agree with you that a tough stand must be taken against those who go mad for nothing, but those who go mad for a genuine cause should be forgiven as far as I believe,after their reasons are looked at of course, now I have good reason to feel the injustice applied in public by those degrading my religion and its book constantly, assuming I went mad while the fact is FM never saw me mad LOL, but assuming that was the case, did I doit from nothing?, believe it or not sister, I don't even hate those 3 members of the Kafiroon gang magi, enquirer though I hardly carry no respect to these two, & Danish and a bit of respect for that one, but if the want to play the religious game, why not, let's play, and I will be delighted that they come and play with me here, believe me sister, it will run differently to FM or any other religious site, LOL

magi This is a contradiction in cases where someone does NOT want to comply.[/quote]

well sister Nadia, FI won't have pages of rules to comply with, it will be a few sets of rules created by the community itself, not me, currently I consider that there are no rules in place, but as time goes, rules will be built in place that will be fair to them as it must be fair to the Muslims on this Islamic web site, they can be members and play games all day long, I'm also planning to add some other non religious forums, like My garage forum which is a modification to the phpBB interface that I'm looking at currently, and many other ideas, so there will be many things for them to do here without constantly offending the Muslims if they prefer to be near them all the times, and if they do and insist on non sense I will have many words as a webmaster with them or anyone for that matter, I will treat them as members of a family and I won't make them feel alienated, this is the duty of a webmaster, not to be a control freak as I have seen on free-minds and WhyIslam.org, then when everything is under control, it will be left for the community to run it, the rules should include actions against clear cut trouble makers and confusers but not banning

Atreides wrote:

How will you make them?


I believe I already mentioned a few things that can be done but not banning

Atreides wrote:

What if their arguments have been refuted time and time again and YET they keep at it which is what everyone is so pissed off at,


Well, the remove button to a spam forum where moderators only have access is quite a possible rule if passed by the shora between those who will hold power in this place

Atreides wrote:
as ruining the atmosphere and confusing new members?


when their repetitive non sense is removed to a forum that they have no access to it, I guess it will piss them off and they will refrain, but they will not be banned

Atreides wrote:

You can't have it both ways.


I believe I can, or at least I should give it a try

Atreides wrote:

There is no magic bullet to make people comply virtually.


But there are magic words and ideas that can without the need of life sentence

Atreides wrote:
What we do after seeing that they are not interested in listening, is ban them after they have received ample warning (during which members start getting pissed that nothing is happening and they want them gone but they don't want to be the ones that do it, so someone has to step up to the plate).


members should not be pissed off after their repetitive crap is removed out of the public eyes,

Atreides wrote:
Arguing with these types, serves NO purpose because they aren't interested in learning from your point of view, they are trolling for validation.


I agree that there must be a point where arguing must stop, I always try to do that, but again it is hard for a human being just to simply do that, so those with power in hand should take a politically correct decision

Atreides wrote:
That's it. If you want to take them on, eventually it regresses into a downward spiral of personal attacks, comments and rudeness which I despise. There is nothing constructive about that.


Not really because I don't want to take them on, it is them who want to take on the Muslim, and I welcome them, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they want to learn what they don't know, and time will expose their true colors, then decisions should be taken that serve one purpose only which is to annoy them as members, I found this very effective indeed

Atreides wrote:
Mq talked about getting them to comply or be banned but this is not what you are saying, you don't want them banned.


no this is not what I'm saying, I only meant the complying part, the action taken if they don't should be according to a set of rules created by the community which I don't know yet on FI, I will actually be all ears to everyone including them, the objective of FI is clear and inshaallah must be fulfilled, FI is here to respond to any misconception or misunderstanding about the Arabic Quran, FI will not be a base of inventing new doctrines, we will only look at what people say about our religion and we will only use the Quran to respond to them, if this place stayed online for five years for example God's willing, I'm hoping it will have a reply for every conception or misunderstanding, it will be organised in a way that any Muslim can browse for with ease, as time goes by and I gain experience and study the available technologies I will inform the community and they should direct me in what to do after explaining any prospect of anything to change in here

Atreides wrote:
I agree with him, if they don't comply with the rules they get banned.


I don't now yet, but if FI community see that this is what should happen, I have to listen to them, however my vote will always go to not banning

Atreides wrote:
Simply put. Sometimes it takes time, sometimes it's instantaneous in the past. The rules were revised to make it consistent since some time now. The young guy that PM was talking about had a sordid history that I became aware of which I can't talk about in public. It was justified that he got banned, I wouldn't want someone like that around either.


ok, sorry if there was any misunderstanding on my side, however if you mean that this guy is mentally ill, then someone who suggest that Mohammed never exits is also mentally ill in my eyes. He has to be, after 1400 years of evidences that he can't see

Atreides wrote:
If you're going to go by the whims of the majority, it's up to you.


no no, there will be nothing up to me in here, I only want to concentrate on my Quran comments, I have no time indeed to mock around, I want a few honest and well respected moderators to take it of me after everything is set with the help of Allah, also the majority concept is the most logical to implement and decide upon however I'm open for any ideas, I'm even open to invent our new system of moderation and punishment, sort of a point system like the driver licence points, we can do what we want, we are the ones who create the rules, so it will be always relative between us that is why the majority is the most easiest way to go for

Atreides wrote:
I don't find that very practical and fair in practice because the members usually have an axe to grind against someone they have debated with and 'lost' or just don't like because of any given reason.


well, I may agree with you, but that is something to the individuals to look at, I'm fully aware of it, but with responsibility in hand on FI, I have to be very careful indeed, I hate to be biased but I know it is quite possible to be as a human being

Atreides wrote:
They would vote for a ban, you say you don't want a lengthy one so the time would be a week let's say? They will be back and there will still be dissatisfaction and the same problems once again, until the members sit down and decide, okay another week then during which time those that don't like the atmosphere will leave as happened on FM and as happens on other boards where the mudslinging and general chaos doesn't suit some types.


I guess pissing them off will be a much better option, like a restriction on the words per comment and many other sort of hacks and tricks and I hope by time I gain the experience and create my own hacks, I really feel banning will not solve anything other than creating a permanent hate for life

Atreides wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I wish all the best for the board but I dislike participating in atmospheres where flaming is rampant and abusive comments are directed to people and where those that perpetrate such behaviour are not kicked out for good.


No no, I appreciate this dialogue with you, because truly you earned my respect as a moderator, despite I accused you once of being biased but I accepted your explanation, so my dialogue with you is guiding me to what to do here as I would like to listen to many others and I have to listen to you, I agree with you that continues flaming puts other members down and take the spirit out of the board, and this is not going to happen and the community should find ways to tackle it, however we must consider the circumstances associated with every incident because those who felt injustice must be excused if the injustice is proved

Atreides wrote:
You will find however that banning is suited for the majority of boards where people want smooth and efficient running.


Not really because they can always come back under different names and if the IP address is banned then a public proxy IP address will come very handy and there are hundreds of public proxies that can be used by those banned to come back again and again, it will be a cat and mouse game and will result in more hate

Atreides wrote:
It is not 'unconstitutional' in the least because your forum is your domain where you have people who sign an agreement with you before they participate. I participate on many boards comprising of different genre's and banning is something preferred for obvious reasons.


Banning is possibly preferred because that is the human nature, they like feeling the power and using it on their fellow human beings, this is simply why, and banning is the toughest punishment of the forum world, it is the capital punishment of the forums and I'm against that because on forums there should be no capital punishment, but don't get me wrong, if the community here prefer the banning then they will have it, I will only have a mere single vote not to have it

Atreides wrote:
Forgot to add, since i clicked the post button instead of preview, eid mubarak to you as well.


Thank you sister

Take care

*Edited, fixed a few errors as always, sorry*
- Tue 24 Oct, 2006 8:25 am
Post subject:
Peace bro,

Quote:
I wish it was VB sister, it is PHP and I absolutely have no knowledge in that department, the language looks simple after investigating its syntax but it will still take me at least 6 months to a year to master that language, what is motivating me to master it is simply this, part of what I do is design LAN applications, all MS SQL driven and almost now days all my clients require WAN connectivity to their LAN applications and this is hard to do unless you have a very fast WAN connection, like 10 MB/S at least , so I have to resort to further infrastructure and cost by implementing Windows 2003 Terminal server, and yet it is not as fast but it is very centralised in regards to management and this is a huge bonus on its own, if I master PHP then I can build all my lan applications using it due to the fact that php is designed with database connectivity in mind and as its heart, so running the php applications over a wan connection will be exactly like running this site, i.e. no need for any extra infrastructure and yet can be centrally managed through one web server sitting on the LAN, I hope I can do this actually, I looked at ebay for books and there are plenty so I have another challenge in hand, I already joined a few php communities but the one I'm using "BonusNuke" is new and hardly any support for it “for the tough issues and many bugs i mean”, sorry to bore you


No you didn't bore me at all, I like reading technical stuff right before I go to bed. Best sleep ever! Razz

More to the point though, why did you choose the BonusNuke over the others? Any reason comparatively? Oh and is there a way we can increase the size of the window in which we type before posting? It's way too small. I think that would be doable if you just look at the way it's set up, the parameters and all.

This post is way to long for me to respond to briefly and I don't want to highlight my cynicism too much either, let's just say if you ever need any help, please don't hesitate to ask. I want to see this board take off and of course the epic debates Very Happy
- Wed 25 Oct, 2006 10:08 pm
Post subject:
Atreides wrote:
Peace bro,


Peace sister Nadia

sorry for the late reply, been very busy lately but I was always aware of your comment and planned to reply later, sorry again

Atreides wrote:
No you didn't bore me at all, I like reading technical stuff right before I go to bed. Best sleep ever! Razz



good, then when you need to go to sleep, ask me a techinical question, possibly I will be able to help go to sleep Laughing

Atreides wrote:
More to the point though, why did you choose the BonusNuke over the others? Any reason comparatively?


of course I compared a few popular ones, some are still running on my web server for development and testing purposes only, BN is a great piece of software, I like how it is so centeralized and dynamic, many changes including pages layout can be changed through the control panel, no need for coding whatsoever, and I'm sure it will keep evolving, in fact the expert who is helping me "Martyn" from bonusnuke.com had a look at free-islam today and he liked the movie Jahannam, he will join us soon and he also offered his help to devlope free-islam.com further

Inshaallah free-islam will have a huge variety of members that all will get on well together

Atreides wrote:
Oh and is there a way we can increase the size of the window in which we type before posting? It's way too small. I think that would be doable if you just look at the way it's set up, the parameters and all.


Sure I will look at this soon inshallah, there is actually a module under Admin panel to add "To do list" which should help the site admins to remember the things needed to be done, soon inshallah many will be promoted to moderator status to help me out

Atreides wrote:
This post is way to long for me to respond to briefly and I don't want to highlight my cynicism too much either, let's just say if you ever need any help, please don't hesitate to ask. I want to see this board take off and of course the epic debates Very Happy


Thank you sister, my reply was just expressing my opinion, i was not debating anything, so please don't get me wrong and thanks for your offer of help, there is no doubt that i will need every help I can from those sincere ones who want free-islam to evolve into something useful to all Msulims and non Muslims

Salam
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