To only concentrate on the argument in hand, personal defamation won�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t be tolerated, however if you catch me saying something dumb that is based on ignorance in relation to the argument in hand then it is ok to call me dumb, stupid, etc etc, as I did with you above (4:176), that was so dumb by you, do you know what Kalalah means?
Let me now reply to your puzzle:
We have a man who died and left the following:
1) Two daughters
2) Two Parents
3) One wife
Let me bring the three verses you mentioned, I know that 4:176 does not apply as I stated, however I have to bring it because I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??m going to use it regarding my VOCABULARY and GRAMMAR refute that I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??m sure you never heard of it before, this is because most Muslims got 4:11 wrong, let me explain further, (the translation provided is Free-Islam proposed translation which is in the making:
11: Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have a portion of the two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have one-third of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the one-sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the one-third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the one-sixth after a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is all-Knowing, all-Wise.
12: And you shall have half of what your wives leave if they have no child, but if they have a child, then you shall have a one-fourth of what they leave after any bequest they may have bequeathed or a debt; and they shall have the one-fourth of what you leave if you have no child, but if you have a child then they shall have the one-eighth of what you leave after a bequest you may have bequeathed or a debt; and if a man or a woman leaves property to be inherited by neither parents nor offspring, and he has a brother or a sister, then each of them two shall have the one-sixth, but if they are more than that, they shall be sharers in the one-third after any bequest that may have been bequeathed or a debt that does not harm; this is an ordinance from Allah: and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.
[The Quran ; 4:11-12]
يُوصِيكُمُ اللّهُ فِي أَوْلاَدِكُمْ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الأُنثَيَيْنِ فَإِن كُنَّ نِسَاء فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ وَإِن كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ وَلأَبَوَيْهِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ مِمَّا تَرَكَ إِن كَانَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ فَإِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهُ وَلَدٌ وَوَرِثَهُ أَبَوَاهُ فَلأُمِّهِ الثُّلُثُ فَإِن كَانَ لَهُ إِخْوَةٌ فَلأُمِّهِ السُّدُسُ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِي بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ آبَآؤُكُمْ وَأَبناؤُكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ لَكُمْ نَفْعاً فَرِيضَةً مِّنَ اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيما حَكِيمًا (11)
وَلَكُمْ نِصْفُ مَا تَرَكَ أَزْوَاجُكُمْ إِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهُنَّ وَلَدٌ فَإِن كَانَ لَهُنَّ وَلَدٌ فَلَكُمُ الرُّبُعُ مِمَّا تَرَكْنَ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِينَ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ وَلَهُنَّ الرُّبُعُ مِمَّا تَرَكْتُمْ إِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّكُمْ وَلَدٌ فَإِن كَانَ لَكُمْ وَلَدٌ فَلَهُنَّ الثُّمُنُ مِمَّا تَرَكْتُم مِّن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ تُوصُونَ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ وَإِن كَانَ رَجُلٌ يُورَثُ كَلاَلَةً أَو امْرَأَةٌ وَلَهُ أَخٌ أَوْ أُخْتٌ فَلِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ فَإِن كَانُوَاْ أَكْثَرَ مِن ذَلِكَ فَهُمْ شُرَكَاء فِي الثُّلُثِ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصَى بِهَآ أَوْ دَيْنٍ غَيْرَ مُضَآرٍّ وَصِيَّةً مِّنَ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَلِيمٌ (12)
-> Many Muslims if not all understood 4:11 wrong, this is because they took the Arabic word Thultha ثُلُثَا to mean 2 x one-third, i.e. dual form of Thulth ثُلُثَ , they thought that the Alif (highlighted in red and underlined) that is added at the end of the singular word Thulth caused it to be dual, the problem here that if they want it DUAL then it should be: Thulthan ثُّلُثَانِ ,
This is going to be very deep explanation and is not for the faint hearted who lack solid Arabic grammar, but let me at least try to clear your and their ignorance:
Firstly, let me explain this:
Any Arabic noun must end with any of the following vowels DEPENDING ON something called Irab, I don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t know how to translate Irab however I can explain it, it is to identify the grammatical position of each word within the sentence to find out which vowel should be used at the end of the word.
The most common and widely used vowels in Arabic are as follow:
1) Dummah (oooooo)
2) Fatiha (aaaaaa)
3) Kasira (eeeeee)
4) Sikoon (nothing) �?????�????�???�??�?�¢?? therefore I will ignore this one
In many cases we canÃ??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??t use the above vowels, a case is the dual word which must end with AN or AYN, for example Madrastan, or Madrasatayn, both words means two schools, this is how they look in Arabic مدرستان, مدرستين
Let me explain how the dual of the word Thulth ثُلُثَ which means one-third should be and its position in Irab as it appeared in 4:11,
The dual form of it must end with AN, i.e. Thulthan ثُّلُثَانِ which means two-thirds, you can see the word clearly used as such in 4:176
Now we have two possible words (singualr and dual) that we may need to apply the above vowels to them:
1) The first word : Thulth ثُلُثَ which means one-third
We have two possibilities:
A) The word includes the Al, Al Thulth الثُّلُثُ which means the one-third
B) The word does not include the Al Thulth ثُلُثَ which means one-third
In the first case (A) the vowel marks (the Dummah, Fatiha or Kasirah), are just added to the last letter (no letters added to the main word), the word letters MUST stay the same, and just apply the possible vowels with the mouth and not in writing, so it will be pronounced as follow:
i) Al Thultha الثُّلُثَ , as you can see the word letters stayed the same and only a Fatiha is added to the last letter (the Fatiha is the small dash above the last letter
ii) Al Thultho الثُّلُثُ , as you can see the word letters stayed the same and only a Dummah is added to the last letter, The dummah is the small waw above the last letter
iii) Al Thulthe الثُّلُثِ , as you can see the word letters stayed the same and only a Kasirah is added to the last letter, the kasirah is the small dash under the last letter
In the second case (B), where there is no Al, I.e. Thulth ثُلُثَ which means one-third, the word may be voweled as the word with an Al, however with the case of Rafi by Dummah it may be voweled by adding an Alif at the end and by using something called Dummah Muqaddarh, i.e. Assumed Dummah, the reason for that is to make the pronunciation simple on the tongue. Now before I move to the dual of the word let me show you the example of its singular form as it appeared twice in 4:11:
X) فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ , Falahunna Thultha Ma Tarak, in here the Irab of the singular word Thultha is Mubtadda, and every Mubtadda must be voweled by Dummah (oooooo) however, because the word does not have the Al (The) then we can vowel it by adding the letter Alif at the end then assume that there is a Dummah at the last letter (Dummah Muqaddarah) i.e. Assumed Dummah
The proper understanding and translation to the above should be:
Then they should get one-third of what the deceased left
XX) فَلأُمِّهِ الثُّلُثُ in here the Irab of the singular word Al Thulth is Mubtadda also, and every Mubtadda must be voweled by Dummah (oooooo) however, because the word does have the Al (The) then we have to vowel it by adding real Dummah at the last letter and that is NOT Dummah Muqaddarh.
There should be no confusion regarding translating the above because no letters were added to the word, so it should be:
Then for his mother, the one-third
Let me now discuss the dual form and you should see for yourself that the dual form of any word which should e ending by AN, must be oooooo voweled by Thiboot Al Noon, i.e. the last letter N (Noon) CAN NOT BE OMMITTED, and that is what caused the confusion for those dumb who didn�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t bloody study the Arabic grammar from A to Z, when they thought that there is an omitted Noon in such word as it appeared in 4:11, i.e. for them, the word Thultha with an Alif at the end in 4:11, should be Thulthan, i.e two-thirds and the Noon is omitted due to the Irab, the Quran exposes their ignorance fair and square, let me prove it to you using 4:176 where the dual form of the word, which is Thulthan appeared:
Again, 4:176 is irrelevant to the discussion of the inheritance distribution to the example you have given, because 4:176 is only talking about a condition called Kalalah, i.e. those who died and left no children nor parents, just brothers and sisters left:
They ask you. Say: Allah answers you concerning the person who has neither parents nor offspring (Kalalah); if a man dies (and) he has no child and he has a sister, she shall have half of what he leaves, and he shall be her heir she has no child; but if there be two (sisters), they shall have the two-thirds of what he leaves; and if there are brothers, men and women, then the male shall have a portion of the two females; Allah explains to you, lest you err; and Allah is all-Knowing of every thing.
[The Quran ; 4:176]
يَسْتَفْتُونَكَ قُلِ اللّهُ يُفْتِيكُمْ فِي الْكَلاَلَةِ إِنِ امْرُؤٌ هَلَكَ لَيْسَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ وَلَهُ أُخْتٌ فَلَهَا نِصْفُ مَا تَرَكَ وَهُوَ يَرِثُهَآ إِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهَا وَلَدٌ فَإِن كَانَتَا اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُمَا الثُّلُثَانِ مِمَّا تَرَكَ وَإِن كَانُواْ إِخْوَةً رِّجَالاً وَنِسَاء فَلِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الأُنثَيَيْنِ يُبَيِّنُ اللّهُ لَكُمْ أَن تَضِلُّواْ وَاللّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ (176)
-> How clear is this man: فَلَهُمَا الثُّلُثَانِ , Falahuma Al Thulthan, almost identical sentence to 4:11, let me put both on top of each other so you can compare:
--- 4:11 فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ , Falahunna Thultha Ma Tarak
--- 4:176 فَلَهُمَا الثُّلُثَانِ , Falahuma Al Thulthan
The Irab of both words: Thultha as it appeared in 4:11 and the word Al Thulthan as it appeared in 4:176 is Mubtadda, i.e. both words must be voweled with ooooo, however for dual words that end with AN, the Rafi by Dummah can not be used and instead the Rafi is by the Alif that is before the Noon and Thiboot Al Noon, i.e. the Noon must be there in addition to the Alif as clearly seen in 4:176
Therefore because the Noon is not in the word Thultha as it appeared in 4:11 then it can�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t be Dual that has an omitted Noon because it is a Mubtadda that should be vowled by the Alif before the Noon and the Noon must not be ommitted EXACTLY AS SEEN IN 4:176
Before you pull your hair seeing another allegation biting the dust let me totally slam dunk ya and again by using the Quran alone:
Singular words with an added Alif in the end due to the Irab are very common in the Arabic language, here is 3 examples from many in the Quran, in each example I will show you the singular word without an Alif then the same word but with an Alif, and in both cases the word stayed SINGULAR
Let me start with the word Quran, here it is without an Alif at the end:
Alif Lam Ra. These are the signs of the Book and an obvious Quran.
[The Quran ; 15:1]
الَرَ تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ وَقُرْآنٍ مُّبِينٍ (1)
-> See قُرْآنٍ , Quran, i.e. Quran
Here it is with an Alif at the end:
A Book of which the verses are explained, an Arabic Quran for a people who know:
[The Quran ; 41:3]
كِتَابٌ فُصِّلَتْ آيَاتُهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْلَمُونَ (3)
-> See قُرْآنًا , Qurana, i.e. Quran
In both cases the word Quran or Qurana stayed SINGULAR
Another example is the word Sullum, Ladder, here it is without an Alif at the end:
Or have they a ladder by which they listen? Then let their listener bring a clear authority.
[The Quran ; 52:38]
أَمْ لَهُمْ سُلَّمٌ يَسْتَمِعُونَ فِيهِ فَلْيَأْتِ مُسْتَمِعُهُم بِسُلْطَانٍ مُّبِينٍ (38)
-> See سُلَّمٌ , Sullum, i.e. Ladder
Here it is with an Alif at the end:
And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek a tunnel into the earth or a ladder in the heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant.
[The Quran ; 6:35]
وَإِن كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَن تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاء فَتَأْتِيَهُم بِآيَةٍ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَى فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ (35)
-> See سُلَّمًا , Sulluma, i.e. Ladder
In both cases the word Sullum or Sulluma stayed SINGULAR
And finally, the word Maqam Place, here it is without an Alif at the end:
Surely the pious are in a secure place
[The Quran ; 44:51]
إِنَّ الْمُتَّقِينَ فِي مَقَامٍ أَمِينٍ (51)
See مَقَامٍ , Maqam, i.e. Place
And here it is with an Alif at the end:
And during a part of the night, pray continuously beyond what is incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a place of great glory.
[The Quran ; 17:79]
وَمِنَ اللَّيْلِ فَتَهَجَّدْ بِهِ نَافِلَةً لَّكَ عَسَى أَن يَبْعَثَكَ رَبُّكَ مَقَامًا مَّحْمُودًا (79)
See مَقَامًا , Maqama, i.e. Place
In both cases the word Maqam or Maqama stayed SINGULAR
Therefore it is clear that the word Thultha with an Alif at the end as it appeared in 4:11 means one-third
Let me now look at your example and see how the inheritance should be distributed:
1) Two daughters
2) Two Parents
3) One wife
Let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s distribute the estate:
1) According to 4:11, the two daughters should take: 1/3
2) According to 4:11, the parents should take 1/6 each, i.e. 1/6 + 1/6 = 1/3
3) According to 4:12, the wife should take 1/8
Total = 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/8 = 19/24
I.e. we still have 5/24 to be distributed to whoever
That should slam dunk your allegation above for life:
- Mon 03 Dec, 2007 12:22 am
Post subject:
Don't answer but instead ask them to explain. Can you post that question to Ali Sina and ask him to explain?