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Bring it on - Tvebak (FFI) vs AhmedBahgat, 20:10, 27:7, 28:29
- Tue 29 Jan, 2008 6:01 pm
Post subject: Tvebak (FFI) vs AhmedBahgat, 20:10, 27:7, 28:29
Hello Tvebak

Let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s have one more go at your silly argument:

Tvebak wrote:
In verse 20.10, 27.7 and 28.29 where we are told about Moses encounter with g_d. He does'nt seem to remember what exactly Moses said to his folk/family/households.


What a silly argument that is man, well, it seems you are missing an important point, the Quran explains itself, i.e. the Quran may be talking about the same subject in more than one location, at the end of the day non of the information should conflict with another, a quick example when the Quran told us that Firon wanted to crucify the magicians. Then in another location it told us that he wanted to crucify them on the stumps of palm trees, no conflict, rather elaboration

The three verses you are talking about are a very good example to epxose your confusion, this is because there is no further info in the verses, rather the exact same was said by Moses all along:

Tvebak wrote:
Really g_d seems to be unsure how the whole story of the meeting between Moses and him went about (20.9-, 27.7-12 and 28.28-)


This is a premature conclusion, let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s analyse the verses:

Tvebak wrote:
20.10
Yusuf Ali:
Behold, he saw a fire: So he said to his family, "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."
Shakir:
When he saw fire, he said to his family: Stop, for surely I see a fire, haply I may bring to you therefrom a live coal or find a guidance at the fire.
Pickthall:
When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off. Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.

إِذْ رَأَى نَارًا فَقَالَ لِأَهْلِهِ امْكُثُوا إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا لَّعَلِّي آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِقَبَسٍ أَوْ أَجِدُ عَلَى النَّارِ هُدًى

Ith raa naran faqala li-ahlihi omkuthoo innee anastu naran laAAallee ateekum minha biqabasin aw ajidu AAala alnnari hudan


I will use Shakir translation for now but AFTER fixing it:

When he saw fire, he said to his family: Stop, for surely I see a fire, haply I may bring to you therefrom a small file or find a guidance at the fire.
[The Quran ; 20:10]

إِذْ رَأَى نَارًا فَقَالَ لِأَهْلِهِ امْكُثُوا إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا لَّعَلِّي آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِقَبَسٍ أَوْ أَجِدُ عَلَى النَّارِ هُدًى (10)


Ie. Moses said to his people regarding the fire which he saw at a distance the following:

1) Either he will bring a small fire from it.
2) Or he will find guidance at its location

Tvebak wrote:
27.7
Yusuf Ali:
Behold! Moses said to his family: "I perceive a fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel, that ye may warm yourselves.
Shakir:
When Musa said to his family: Surely I see fire; I will bring to you from it some news, or I will bring to you therefrom a burning firebrand so that you may warm yourselves.
Pickthall:
(Remember) when Moses said unto his household: Lo! I spy afar off a fire; I will bring you tidings thence, or bring to you a borrowed flame that ye may warm yourselves.:

إِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِأَهْلِهِ إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا سَآتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ آتِيكُم بِشِهَابٍ قَبَسٍ لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ

Ith qala moosa li-ahlihi innee anastu naran saateekum minha bikhabarin aw ateekum bishihabin qabasin laAAallakum tastaloona



When Musa said to his family: Surely I see fire; I will bring to you from it some news, or I will bring to you therefrom a small fire so that you may warm yourselves.
[The Quran ; 27:7]

إِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِأَهْلِهِ إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا سَآتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ آتِيكُم بِشِهَابٍ قَبَسٍ لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ (7)


In the above verse, we read that Moses said to his people regarding the fire he saw at a distance the following:

1) Either he will find at it some news and will bring it in to them
2) or he will bring a small fire from it

Obviously the above that is said by Moses is exactly the same as what he said in 20:10,

In 20:10
1) Either he will bring a small fire from it
2) Or he will find guidance at its location

Now:

-> He will bring a small fire from it (20:10) = he will bring a small fire from it (27:7)

-> He will find guidance at its location = he will find at it some news and will bring it in to them (27:7)

There is no doubt that the guidance Moses would have found at the fire will be brought to them, ie. when he brings that guidance to them, it has to be news for them, got it, mister?

Tvebak wrote:
28.29
Yusuf Ali:
Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that ye may warm yourselves."
Shakir:
So when Musa had fulfilled the term, and he journeyed with his family, he perceived on this side of the mountain a fire. He said to his family: Wait, I have seen a fire, maybe I will bring to you from it some news or a brand of fire, so that you may warm yourselves.
Pickthall:
Then, when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his housefolk, he saw in the distance a fire and said unto his housefolk: Bide ye (here). Lo! I see in the distance a fire; peradventure I shall bring you tidings thence, or a brand from the fire that ye may warm yourselves.

فَلَمَّا قَضَى مُوسَىالْأَجَلَ وَسَارَ بِأَهْلِهِ آنَسَ مِن جَانِبِ الطُّورِ نَارًا قَالَ لِأَهْلِهِ امْكُثُوا إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا لَّعَلِّي آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ جَذْوَةٍ مِنَ النَّارِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ

Falamma qada moosa al-ajala wasara bi-ahlihi anasa min janibi alttoori naran qala li-ahlihi omkuthoo innee anastu naran laAAallee ateekum minha bikhabarin aw jathwatin mina alnnari laAAallakum tastaloona

Cheers



So when Musa had fulfilled the term, and he journeyed with his family, he perceived on this side of the mountain a fire. He said to his family: Wait, I have seen a fire, maybe I will bring to you from it some news or a small fire, so that you may warm yourselves.
[The Quran ; 28:29]

فَلَمَّا قَضَى مُوسَىالْأَجَلَ وَسَارَ بِأَهْلِهِ آنَسَ مِن جَانِبِ الطُّورِ نَارًا قَالَ لِأَهْلِهِ امْكُثُوا إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا لَّعَلِّي آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ جَذْوَةٍ مِنَ النَّارِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ (29)


In the above verse, we read that Moses said to his people regarding the fire which he saw at a distance, the following:

1) Either he will find at it some news and will bring it in to them
2) Or he will bring a small fire from it

A) well, that is exactly what he said in 27:7, Ie:

What Moses said in 28:29 = what Moses said in 27:7

B) And because what Moses said in 27:7 = what he said in 20:10, as proven above

Therefore from A & B:

C) What Moses said in 28:29 = what Moses said in 20: 10

I.E. from A & B & C:

E) what Moses said in 20:10 = what Moses said = 27: 7= what Moses said in 28:29


I.E. from E:

Tvebak is the one who is a clear cut confused

Cheers
- Wed 30 Jan, 2008 7:48 am
Post subject:
Salam brother,

As always it is a pleasure to read your posts BUT!

Tvebak is the one who is a clear cut confused

Confused ?

Tvebak wrote:
In verse 20.10, 27.7 and 28.29 where we are told about Moses encounter with g_d. He does'nt seem to remember what exactly Moses said to his folk/family/households.

A member of 'fcuk faith intl' who writes g_d instead of God and you call him confused? He is nothing but a non-believer. Brother AB if you write not one but 10 posts, he will still be a kafir, so please for God sake do not waste your time with him or his kind of people. Tehy will never listen!

Here is FI reply to TVBAK, 'go fcuk yourself'.
- Wed 30 Jan, 2008 8:40 am
Post subject:
Rigel wrote:
Salam brother,

As always it is a pleasure to read your posts BUT!

Tvebak is the one who is a clear cut confused

Confused ?

Tvebak wrote:
In verse 20.10, 27.7 and 28.29 where we are told about Moses encounter with g_d. He does'nt seem to remember what exactly Moses said to his folk/family/households.

A member of 'fcuk faith intl' who writes g_d instead of God and you call him confused? He is nothing but a non-believer. Brother AB if you write not one but 10 posts, he will still be a kafir, so please for God sake do not waste your time with him or his kind of people. Tehy will never listen!

Here is FI reply to TVBAK, 'go fcuk yourself'.



Lol dear brother

I stand corrected

Cheers
- Thu 31 Jan, 2008 5:51 am
Post subject:
Rigel wrote:
Salam brother,

As always it is a pleasure to read your posts BUT!

Tvebak is the one who is a clear cut confused

Confused ?

Tvebak wrote:
In verse 20.10, 27.7 and 28.29 where we are told about Moses encounter with g_d. He does'nt seem to remember what exactly Moses said to his folk/family/households.

A member of 'fcuk faith intl' who writes g_d instead of God and you call him confused? He is nothing but a non-believer. Brother AB if you write not one but 10 posts, he will still be a kafir, so please for God sake do not waste your time with him or his kind of people. Tehy will never listen!

Here is FI reply to TVBAK, 'go fcuk yourself'.

I think Tvebak is a Jew. A Jewish friend of mine told me that they are not allowed to write the name of God on anything, because it could be erased or tampered with.
And so, to get around this, they write God as G-d, and Lord as L-rd!
Of course, no comment!
- Thu 31 Jan, 2008 11:42 am
Post subject:
Windsor wrote:
Rigel wrote:
Salam brother,

As always it is a pleasure to read your posts BUT!

Tvebak is the one who is a clear cut confused

Confused ?

Tvebak wrote:
In verse 20.10, 27.7 and 28.29 where we are told about Moses encounter with g_d. He does'nt seem to remember what exactly Moses said to his folk/family/households.

A member of 'fcuk faith intl' who writes g_d instead of God and you call him confused? He is nothing but a non-believer. Brother AB if you write not one but 10 posts, he will still be a kafir, so please for God sake do not waste your time with him or his kind of people. Tehy will never listen!

Here is FI reply to TVBAK, 'go fcuk yourself'.

I think Tvebak is a Jew. A Jewish friend of mine told me that they are not allowed to write the name of God on anything, because it could be erased or tampered with.
And so, to get around this, they write God as G-d, and Lord as L-rd!
Of course, no comment!


Thanks for the info mate, I actually never knew that

Cheers
- Thu 31 Jan, 2008 11:12 pm
Post subject:
Salam All

Here is a url for the full thread if anyone wants to read or reply there:

http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/ftopic68-0-asc-0.php

Cheers
- Fri 01 Feb, 2008 7:59 am
Post subject:
Windsor wrote:
Rigel wrote:
Salam brother,

As always it is a pleasure to read your posts BUT!

Tvebak is the one who is a clear cut confused

Confused ?

Tvebak wrote:
In verse 20.10, 27.7 and 28.29 where we are told about Moses encounter with g_d. He does'nt seem to remember what exactly Moses said to his folk/family/households.

A member of 'fcuk faith intl' who writes g_d instead of God and you call him confused? He is nothing but a non-believer. Brother AB if you write not one but 10 posts, he will still be a kafir, so please for God sake do not waste your time with him or his kind of people. Tehy will never listen!

Here is FI reply to TVBAK, 'go fcuk yourself'.

I think Tvebak is a Jew. A Jewish friend of mine told me that they are not allowed to write the name of God on anything, because it could be erased or tampered with.
And so, to get around this, they write God as G-d, and Lord as L-rd!
Of course, no comment!


Hello Windsor,

Thanks for your input bro.

I really hate talking to or about kafirs when it comes to religion. Anyway what you have mentioned is correct to some extent. But you see the guy is talking about verses from Quran and discussing it with a muslim, and everyone knows the word is God or Allah. If you read above discussion carefully you will find mischief for the purpose to confuse the people. Brother AB is very kind hearted person and you always find him clearing confusions so that the other might learn and understand. At the same time I feel these kafirs do this purposely to move his attention from tasks which he could do to help fellow believers.

That said now you can surf to many jew sites and you will find them mentioning 'God' and not G-D.
Heres one link to famous Rabbi Kelemen. http://www.simpletoremember.com/audio/Rabbi_Lawrence_Kelemen.htm

Thanks for the link brother AB, but if Im so very bored, I will prefer watching porn instead going to that site.

Salam
- Fri 01 Feb, 2008 1:17 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
That said now you can surf to many jew sites and you will find them mentioning 'God' and not G-D.
Heres one link to famous Rabbi Kelemen. http://www.simpletoremember.com/audio/Rabbi_Lawrence_Kelemen.htm

It's simple, they do not practice what they preach.
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