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Hadith & Sunnah - The kafirs want us to uphold the hadith
- Thu 14 Feb, 2008 6:14 pm
Post subject: The kafirs want us to uphold the hadith
Salam all

Not ironic that the kafirs carry the same attitude as the hadith worshippers regarding the hadith, each one of them wants the Muslims to obey the hadith as if it is 100% confirmed that the prophet said so, the idols worshippers want them to do so so they join them in hell as Mushrikoon, while the kafirs want them to do so so they can attack the Muslims through the non sense in the hadith, here is another round with a kafir who loves the haidth as those hadith worshippers:

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Stop acting desperate like those hadith worshippers mister baal
they are the ones who didn't obey Mohammed by writings other books next to the Quran
I'm the one who is fully obeying Mohammed and everything he said as stated in the Quran



Baal wrote:
So the book tells you to obey muhammad.


Ecaxtly, The Quran orders me to obey him and I obey every word he was ordered to say according to the Quran

Baal wrote:
And what muhamad said is the book.


Mohammed said nothing, it was Allah talking all along and He told us many times that He ordered Mohammed to say, say, say ,say,

Baal wrote:
That is a nice point Ahmed but it some points do not gain more credibility beyond being a "nice point". We have to drop the "Nice points" when they do not match with reality.


sounds like you are going to slam dunk yourself, look pal, there is nothing nice about my point, my point is a fact as stated in the Quran, it?????????????????????¢??s you along with your pals the idol worshippers who need to live reality, let me see how you are using their non sense:

Baal wrote:
33:21 - "uswa hasana" - a model to follow an excellent model of conduct (33:21).


hahahaha, read this:

What you are saying using 33:21 is nothing but the same crap by the idol worshippers say. The Quran never said exclusively to take Mohammed alone as an example, this is the lame argument the idol worshippers use, they say the following verse clearly suggest to take Mohammed through the man made hadith as an example:

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example, for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.
[The Quran ; 33:21]

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا (21)

-> See what 33:21 says: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example, and this is for anyone who: for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day

But they totally missed the following verses that tell us to take far more than the prophet alone as excellent examples:

4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.
[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I?????????????????????¢??m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don?????????????????????¢??t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

Baal wrote:
4:80 - ?????????????????????¢??he who obeys the Messenger [Muhammad], obeys Allah?????????????????????¢??????????????????????


I?????????????????????¢??m the one who is obeying Mohammed word for word as stated in the Quran, they are the ones who don?????????????????????¢??t obey Allah word for word as stated in the Quran nor they obey Mohammed sayings as stated in their hadith

Baal wrote:
How are we supposed to follow the model of muhammad from the koran alone?


through Qul, Qul, Qul, Qul, Qul, Qul,

exactly as we should take Ibrahim and those with him as great examples of those who stood against the shirk as stated in 60:4&6

Baal wrote:
Are we supposed to follow his model in talking to gibreel by any chance?


this question is for the idol worshippers not me

Dismissed

Baal wrote:
And other things missing from the koran, like how to pray, how to do the Haj, How to fast Ramadan, some Hudud was specified in koran but it does not cover most situations, how are we to cover them without koran?


holy carp, I just replied to a goon on ffi regarding the same crap, hold on let me copy it in here:


Searcher wrote:
Like how can you know how to pray without the Hadith?


Idiot, you know nothing about this webn site, it seems you only read the first line of their crap regarding their weapons against the Quran only Muslims, the tom and jerry argument, how I pray?

hahahahahahah

look kid, I pary like the prophet prayed, this is because the way he prayed was transmitted via the word of mouth, in fact there is no hadith that teaches us how to pray in full, i learnt how to pray using the word of mouth from my parents and my teachers, never read it in a book, what they have in their hadith books however is confuising bits and pieces of hearsay,and even if I invistigate such hearsay regarding the prayer, I'm happy to accept most of it because most of it do not contradict the Quran, as well the prayer is mentioned hundreds of times in the Quran, i.e. those hadith about salat (prayer) can be confirmed using the Quran, remember what I told ya that i believe in:

I believe in anything that is qualified by the Quran and because the prayer is qualified by the Quran then if the hadith that is talking about it pass the common sense , I will be happy to accept its teaching

now, that does not mean that I accept every hadith about the salat, again if it does not pass the Quran and the common sense then the hadith has no place but the rubbish bin, let me give a confused idiot like ya an example:

the hadith about the Salat being negotiated from 50 salat per day to 5 per day, such hadith is nothing but lies, and it must be dismissed, see how I dismissed it despite it talks about the Salat (prayer), this is because the Quran told us tens of times that Allah does not change His words, as well it told us that Allah does not put a burden on any soul but what it can bear it, therefore such hadith about the prayer failed in two aspects:

1) It shows that Allah put a burden on the believers while they can't take it, in clear violation to the Quran

2) It shows that Allah changed His words at least 5 times, and again in clear violation to the Quran

therefore such hadith about the prayer has to be dismissed in the rubbish bin

what else from such web site you want me to slam dunk mister confused?

Baal wrote:
On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own.


Of course for a kafir or an idol worshipper, the above is what they have to say, for me I have to dismiss it though

Baal wrote:
94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder.


stop talking crap, your statistics are dismissed

Baal wrote:
Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you.

yeh let?????????????????????¢??s play catch 22:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآؤُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ اللّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُواْ اللّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (64)
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 4:64]
-> See: وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّه , And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , i.e. all messengers should be obeyed regarding the message they brough in from Allah, not regarding what the people say about them. and in such case we will be obeying the people who spewed lies about them not really obeying the messengers as the Quran told us

Baal wrote:
You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book.
Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways.


It seems you don?????????????????????¢??t even understand how obeying another person should work, to be honest no time to waste with your silly rants
- Fri 15 Feb, 2008 7:42 am
Post subject:
Bro, most hadiths are crap and need to be thrown in the rubbish bin, but I do believe that some Hadiths are genuine and are authentic statements from the Great Prophet. I believe that his statements regarding respecting your mother, and his statements regarding the good treatment of the poor, and his statements giving a tafsir to some verses of the Quran are all authentic.

But many other hadiths need to be thrown away also.
- Fri 15 Feb, 2008 10:12 pm
Post subject:
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote:
Bro, most hadiths are crap and need to be thrown in the rubbish bin,


Salam bro

The question is not just being crap or sounds cool and dandy, the other important question is do we really need it (those which even sound cool and dandy)?

IntellectualWarfare1 wrote:
but I do believe that some Hadiths are genuine and are authentic statements from the Great Prophet.


I'm glad that you used the word BELIEVE, this is because you will never be certain that he said so, at least for now,

now comes an important question based on your proper use of the word "Believe", are we required in the Quran to BELIEVE in such hearsay by bukhari and his likes?

IntellectualWarfare1 wrote:
I believe that his statements regarding respecting your mother, and his statements regarding the good treatment of the poor,


well, do we really need it?, was not enough what Allah told us in the Quran regarding respecting the mothers and regarding the good treatment of the poor?

what if a known kafir wrote in a book the exact same regarding respecting the mothers and regarding the good treatment of the poor, will you uphold it as a great teaching by such kafir next to the Quran?

again, do you really need it in addition to what the Quran already said regarding such matters?

IntellectualWarfare1 wrote:
and his statements giving a tafsir to some verses of the Quran are all authentic.


again dear brother, you can not boldly claim so, you just can't know if the great prophet said so regarding whatever verse 1400 years ago, however I agree with you that the most important hadith are those which explain any Quran verse for us, yet the act won't go beyond the definition of following conjectures, but this may be classified as being from the least conjectures that we are allowed to follow according to the Quran

IntellectualWarfare1 wrote:
But many other hadiths need to be thrown away also.


look, I know that you are about 18 years old, can you please tell me how you as an 18 years old young man managed to understand the obvious while many over 40 years old are still hadith worshippers?

Salam
- Fri 15 Feb, 2008 10:52 pm
Post subject: Salaams all
Muslims are defending Islam and Qur'aan. The ex-Muslims are defending hadith. lol!

BMZ
- Fri 15 Feb, 2008 11:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Salaams all
BMZ wrote:
Muslims are defending Islam and Qur'aan. The ex-Muslims are defending hadith. lol!

BMZ


very funny mate

cheers
- Thu 19 Feb, 2009 2:26 am
Post subject:
Salam all

One of the filthy, retarded, confused and shameless kafir on FFI (Khalil Fariel) is still promoting his ignorance desiring that the Muslims should uphold the crap called hadith, this is what the filthy has to say:

The retarded kafir Khlail Fariel said on FFI:

[This is the first part o f a series of writings on ?????????????????????¢??Why Adopting a Quran only approach is impractical for Muslims?????????????????????¢??????????????????????. Funk Soul Bruhva already has an excellent article on this but my aim is to go through another route to tackle the issue]

Like other Semitic religions, Islam stresses on the importance of Salvation. It is not just about enlightenment, but salvation is a must for Muslims. Now, Let us see how salvation can be achieved.

Without the love and mercy of Allah, no Muslim can achieve salvation, because as human beings they all are prone to error, sins and only god can forgive those sins and admit them to his paradise. And if Allah has to forgive, Muslim should acquire Allah?????????????????????¢??s love. Allah not loving a Muslim means no salvation at all; .

Now, let us have a look at the following verse from Quran on how it is possible for a Muslim to attain Allah?????????????????????¢??s love:

Say [O Prophet]: "If you love God, follow me [and] God will love you and forgive you your sins; for God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."[Quran Chapter: 3:31]

The style of this verse is like Muhammad speaking on behalf of Allah, or god prompts Muhammad to speak up. To acquire god?????????????????????¢??s love, we understand it is essential to follow the man to whom this book was revealed. Great; but who is that man? I don?????????????????????¢??t think no Muslims (or Kaffirs?) will have problem here to admit it is Muhammad the prophet of Islam. So far good but how far it would do?

Allah says: following Muhammad is very much essential to gain Allah?????????????????????¢??s love and forgiveness likewise. Or if faithful follow Muhammad?????????????????????¢??s footsteps, they can reach to god?????????????????????¢??s immense love. Other interpretation can be if anyone wants to love god and acquire god?????????????????????¢??s love in return, the only way is through Muhammad. Follow Muhammad, then Allah will love you too. This is a general message for all Muslims from their god.

Now the quandary begins. The predicament of Quran only genus; how are they going to follow Muhammad?

It is practically impossible to follow a dead man if he is not known well. Or to be precise; to follow a man, you must know the man perfectly well. Like when did he born, how many years he lived and when did he die? Who were his parents? How was his familial life? Whether the person have left any children?

None of these are available in Quran. The holy text does not say the birth date or childhood of Muhammad, It does not mention when did Muhammad breath his last. The only notion it gives us is he had more than one wives but he was not the father of any believers. That means either he was childless, or if he had any kids, they were not believers since Muhammad being the father of believers will be contrary to Quan?????????????????????¢??s assertion:

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.[Quran: 33:40

Yet some weird Muslims claim it is possible to reach god through Quran only.., Well Muslims, you are not going to get your god?????????????????????¢??s love and forgiveness if you go with only Quran in your hands. You should know your prophet well to follow his footsteps. To follow a dead man, you should know the life history of this man. Only by knowing all in details you will get a picture of your role model. And only then you will be able to know how he lived his life, moreover only through this way you can follow, emulate your prophet.

Otherwise, sadly?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦, I mean very sadly you will miss your god?????????????????????¢??s love. Well, if you miss your god?????????????????????¢??s love then you missed everything;
---------------------------------------------

Ahmed says:

You can see how retarded and confused such prick is, he is basing his flawed argument on one word in verse 3:31 فاتبعوني , Fa Itabiooni, i.e. Then follow me, for such retarded kafir the word means to follow the crap and man made books of hadith, the books that Allah never sent to us, rather invented by a bunch that I classify as the Criminals of Islam, like Bukhari, Muslim and their likes

For a punk like Khalil and as punks like the confused Muslims and hadith worshippers, someone like me is not following the prophet, despite I follow the Quran, I pray 5 times a day, I fast, I pay Zakah (Alms) and will do Hajj (if I could), for such freaks bound to hell, yet I can not be a Muslim, for them I have to be following such man made crap books of hadith which Allah never sent, so I become a follower of the prophet, hahahahahah, what a bunch of clear cut Mushrikoon

The word we have in hand Follow is used numerous times in the Quran, let me show you many verses and you judge for yourself if the prophet meant in 3:31 by following him, is to follow the man made crap books of hadith that did not even exist during the prophet time:

Indeed, the nearest of the people to Ibrahim are those who followed him and (followed) this prophet and those who believed, and Allah is the guardian of the believers.
[The Quran ; 3:68]

ان اولى الناس بابراهيم للذين اتبعوه وهذا النبي والذين امنوا والله ولي المؤمنين

-> See what Allah is telling us in 3:68, Indeed, the nearest of the people to Ibrahim are those who followed him and (followed) this prophet, how clear, see, it is not just following Mohammed, rather following Mohammed AND Ibrahim at the same time, this can not be through the books of the man made crap hadith, simply, such retarded books never existed during Ibrahim time, nor even during Mohammed time, therefore it is clear that we should follow these prophets in one thing that they all came with, the same message that Allah sent with all His prophets, to believe in Allah and follow the revelation He sent through His scriptures to seek guidance.

Mohammed himself was commanded to follow the religion of Ibrahim, let?????????????????????¢??s read:

Then We revealed to you to follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright one, and he was not among the polytheists.
[The Quran ; 16:123]

ثم اوحينا اليك ان اتبع ملة ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين

-> How clear the command of Allah to Mohammed to follow the religion of Ibrahim: Then We revealed to you to follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright one , see how the verse ended by telling us that Ibrahim was not of the polytheists (Mushrikoon), i.e. he was not following anything else that is not sent by Allah: and he was not among the polytheists. , i.e. those who follow the Quran (which Allah sent) and the crap books of hadith (which Allah never sent) MUST BE POLYTHEISTS (Mushrikoon)

Did Mohammed obey the command of Allah, stated above? Let?????????????????????¢??s read it in one of his 100% Sahih hadith (through the Quran):

Say: Indeed my Lord has guided me to a straight path; a valuable religion, the faith of Ibrahim the upright, and he was not of the polytheists.
[The Quran ; 6:161]

قل انني هداني ربي الي صراط مستقيم دينا قيما ملة ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين

-> See what Mohammed was saying to the people : Say: Indeed my Lord has guided me to a straight path; a valuable religion, the faith of Ibrahim, the upright , so Mohammed was not following anything else but the religion of Ibrahim, see how again the verse is telling us that Ibrahim was not of the polytheists: and he was not of the polytheists, i.e. if Mohammed was following anything else but the religion of Ibrahim, then Mohammed would have been from among the polytheists.

Mohammed himself was commanded to tell the people to follow the religion of Ibrahim. Let?????????????????????¢??s read it in another one of his 100% Sahih hadith (through the Quran):

Say: Allah has spoken the truth, therefore follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright; and he was not one of the polytheists.
[The Quran ; 3:95]

قل صدق الله فاتبعوا مله ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين

-> How clear again: see what Mohammed was saying to the people: Say: Allah has spoken the truth, therefore follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright;, see how consistent the message about Ibrahim is, that he was not among the polytheists: and he was not one of the polytheists. , therefore if I am following the religion of Ibrahim and the Quran (sent by Allah), then I am doing exactly what Allah commanded me to do, i.e. following Ibrahim and Mohammed.

Allah clearly told us that the best of us are those who follow the religion of Ibrahim, i.e. Mohammed and those who follow the religion of Ibrahim must be the best of the people:

And who has a better religion than the one who submitted his face to Allah and while he is doer of good and followed the religion of Ibrahim, the upright, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend.
[The Quran ; 4:125]

ومن احسن دينا ممن اسلم وجهه لله وهو محسن واتبع ملة ابراهيم حنيفا واتخذ الله ابراهيم خليلا

-> How clear, see: And who has a better religion than the one who submitted his face to Allah and while he is doer of good and followed the religion of Ibrahim, the upright,, see how it is all about following Ibrahim not following Mohammed, Mohammed himself was a follower of Ibrahim, i.e. by following Mohammed, then we are automatically followers of Ibrahim, following Mohammed in here means following what was revealed to him from Allah, not bloody following the man made crap books of hadith that did not even exist during Mohammed time.

In the next verse, we read clearly that Mohammed was ordered to follow what is revealed to him:

Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists.
[The Quran ; 6:106]

اتبع ما اوحي اليك من ربك لا اله الا هو واعرض عن المشركين

-> See, Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord, which has to be the Quran, not the man made crap books of hadith, can you see how the verse ended by telling Mohammed to ignore the polytheists: and turn away from the polytheists. That is exactly what I am doing, I am turning away from those confused Mushrik Muslims because most of them are polytheists, and I will continue to do so until my time arrives.

Same message for Mohammed to only follow what Allah has revealed to him (the Quran):

And follow what is revealed to you and be patient until Allah judges, and He is the best of the judges.
[The Quran ; 10:109]

واتبع ما يوحي اليك واصبر حتي يحكم الله وهو خير الحاكمين

-> See: And follow what is revealed to you and be patient until Allah judges , and that is again what I am doing exactly, I am following what was revealed to Mohammed from Allah, while turning away from those punks of Mushrik Muslims and I have no other option but to be patient until Allah judges between me and such Mushrik Muslims, His judgment should be enough for me because: He is the best of the judges.

And again:

And follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; surely Allah is Aware of what you do;
[The Quran ; 33:2]

واتبع ما يوحي اليك من ربك ان الله كان بما تعملون خبيرا

-> See: And follow what is revealed to you from your Lord;, how many times those punks of kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims have to read it to comprehend their Kufr and their Shirk? Unless one hell of a manipulator among them may come and tell us that these books of crap hadith were also revealed and sent down by Allah.

Mohammed must have followed what Allah revealed to him, see this verse, another 100% Sahih hadith by Mohammed:

Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?
[The Quran ; 6:50]

قل لا اقول لكم عندي خزائن الله ولا اعلم الغيب ولا اقول لكم اني ملك ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي قل هل يستوي الاعمي والبصير افلا تتفكرون

-> How clear, again and again, see what Mohammed was saying to the people: Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Now every single Kafir and Mushrik Muslim should know that what was revealed to Mohammed can not be the man made crap books of hadith, this is because of two obvious reasons:

1- Such crap books called books of hadith did not exist during Mohammed time
2- Allah never revealed such man made crap books of hadith to Mohammed

-> No wonder the verse is ending by telling those confused freaks in yet another 100% sahih hadith by Mohammed: Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?

And again Mohammed confirmed in his true hadith (through the Quran) that he was ONLY following what Allah has revealed to him:

Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.
[The Quran ; 46:9]

قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين

-> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me

-> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute.

The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible:

And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance.
[The Quran ; 2:170]

واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما الفينا عليه اباءنا اولو كان اباؤهم لا يعقلون شيئا ولا يهتدون

-> It can?????????????????????¢??t get clearer than this, see: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, THAT IS EXACTLY THE CASE WITH ALL THOSE MUSHRIK MUSLIMS BOUND TO HELL, every time I tell those freaks the same Quran message: Follow what Allah has sent down , they tell me boldly, how come all the previous generations in 1400 years were wrong, i.e. they must follow what their fathers used to follow: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers , and even if their fathers were confused as hell, they still follow them, that is is the exact same as the Christians and the Jews, all bound to hell, see what Allah is telling us next: even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance. , i.e. they are nothing but a bunch of stubborn Muzhiks who are in the process of securing their pits in hell. In fact using the same Muslim flawed argument that how come all these generations in 1400 years were flawed, then the Christian argument must be admissible too, that how come all those generations of Christians were flawed over 2000 years, if the Muslims use such flawed argument, then they should dare not to tell the Christians that their religion was flawed for 2000 years.

This common flaw by the humans of following their parents even if their parents know nothing is very common in humanity, look around you and you should see most of those following a religion are only following what they inherited from their parents without thinking if their parents were wrong or not, for them, their parents must have been right:

And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire!
[The Quran ; 31:21]

واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما وجدنا عليه اباءنا اولو كان الشيطان يدعوهم الي عذاب السعير

-> See: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It makes no difference to them if their parents were flawed, it is like they are invited by their parents to the hellfire and they are happy to follow them, see: It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire!

In the next we read clearly what the believers should follow, let?????????????????????¢??s see:

And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, and follow not the (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His way; this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah).
[The Quran ; 6:153]

وان هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه ولا تتبعوا السبل فتفرق بكم عن سبيله ذلكم وصاكم به لعلكم تتقون

-> See what Allah is telling us to follow: And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, , in fact in the same verse Allah is warning us not to follow any other path: and follow not the (other) ways , sounds like Allah is warning us against these crap books of hadith that He never sent, see what Allah is telling us next, that is if we follow such non sense books of hadith (the other ways): for they will lead you away from His way, HOW CLEAR, this is exactly what happened to the confused Muslims, they ignored what Allah has sent which we should only follow, and followed other man made crap which Allah never sent, which resulted in the division of Islam into numerous sects and ideologies. Can you see that by listening to Allah we will be Muttaqeen (fearful of Allah): this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah). , however the confused Muslims do not want to do that, they do not want to fear Allah, they only fear the heads of shirk through their Mullah, Imams, Muftis and Sheikhs, for them, what those confused punks (the hadith writers and their followers) say, is more of a value than what Allah says. I seek refuge in Allah.

In fact, two verses down, Allah clearly told us what His straight path that we should follow is:

And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy.
[The Quran ; 6:155]

وهذا كتاب انزلناه مبارك فاتبعوه واتقوا لعلكم ترحمون

-> How clear, certainly the straight path of Allah must be through His Quran, see: And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy., therefore those who do not follow it, or shirk it with other books that Allah never sent down do not fear Allah nor they will receive mercy from Him.

We also read in the Sahih Hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) that he asked those freaks to bring another book (FROM ALLAH) other than the Quran that is better so he may follow it:

Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it, if you are truthful.
[The Quran ; 28:49]

قل فاتوا بكتاب من عند الله هو اهدي منهما اتبعه ان كنتم صادقين

-> See the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it. Well we know well that all these man made crap books of hadith are not FROM ALLAH, so how come we should follow it? The verse here is clear, that we may follow other books but only if:

1- The book is from Allah
2- The book is better in guidance than the Quran

Now the man made books of hadith are not from Allah nor they are better guidance than the Quran, therefore Muslims have committed no sin by not following such crap books of man made hadith, according to 28:49

Mohammed was a warner for those who accept and follow the Quran, see this verse:

You can only warn him who follows the reminder and fears the Compassionate in secret; so announce to him forgiveness and an honourable reward.
[The Quran ; 36:11]

انما تنذر من اتبع الذكر وخشي الرحمن بالغيب فبشره بمغفرة واجر كريم

-> See: You can only warn him who follows the reminder and fears the Compassionate in secret , and we all know that الذكر , Al-Zikr, i.e. The reminder is nothing but the Quran, therefore, Mohammed was sent to those who will follow the Quran as stated clearly in this verse.

All (Kafirs, Mushriks and Muslims) know well that Allah never sent down such man made books, and we know well that what He sent down is called Quran, here is the clear order to follow such Quran:

Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, little that you remember.
[The Quran ; 7:3]

اتبعوا ما انزل اليكم من ربكم ولا تتبعوا من دونه اولياء قليلا ما تذكرون

-> Very clear that Allah is telling us to follow what he sent down: Follow (plural) what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, , there will be no punk of those kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims who has balls to tell us that these man made crap books of hadith are what Allah has sent down. The fact remains intact, that those punks from among the kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims do not want to remember: little that you remember.

In the next verse we read another Sahih hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) in such hadith, it is clearly said that Mohammed was a believer in Allah words, not Bukhari words, not Muslim words, and certainly not any of those confused hadith writers words:

Say: O people! Indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you all, to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, there is no god but He; He gives life and causes death therefore believe in Allah and His messenger. The unlettered prophet who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him so that you may be guided.
[The Quran ; 7:158]

قل يأيها الناس اني رسول الله اليكم جميعا الذي له ملك السماوات والارض لا اله الا هو يحيي ويميت فامنوا بالله ورسوله النبي الامي الذي يؤمن بالله وكلماته واتبعوه لعلكم تهتدون

-> See: The unlettered prophet who believes in Allah and His words, and because Mohammed believes in Allah and His words, then we should follow his path, see: and [b]follow him so that you may be guided.[/b]. How we will be following him in the allegations by the confused hadith writers while the fact of the matter, all these man made books did not exist during Mohammed time?

Indeed, Mohammed was ONLY using the Quran to warn the people, and when he was doing so the kafirs told him to bring another book except that Quran, let?????????????????????¢??s read:

And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me; indeed I fear if I disobey my Lord, the torture of a mighty day.
[The Quran ; 10:15]

واذا تتلي عليهم اياتنا بينات قال الذين لا يرجون لقاءنا ائت بقران غير هذا او بدله قل ما يكون لي ان ابدله من تلقاء نفسي ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي اني اخاف ان عصيت ربي عذاب يوم عظيم

-> See: And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. , well it seems that all those hadith writers and their fellow Mushrik Muslims were not happy with the Quran alone, and because Mohammed was dead at that and this time, so they could not ask him likewise the kafir asked him, to bring another book but the Quran, so they created their own books, many of them that contradict each other, as well contradict itself, these books can not be called the straight path, they are indeed the deviant path that most Muslims chose to follow in addition to the straight path of Allah (the Quran), see what Mohammed said to those freaks request as stated in his Sahih Hadith (through the Quran): Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me, i.e. by following Mohammed, we should follow what was revealed to him from Allah, this revelation is nothing but the Quran, that is why those freaks asked him to bring another Quran other than the Quran that Allah sent. You should know that the word Quran implies reading, i.e. those freaks were asking for other books so they read it and seek guidance from it, and that is exactly what happened to the confused Ummah of Muslims, they read such man made books and spread its message between the believers while totally ignoring the Quran, or just giving it the least attention, they are fixated on such man made carp books of hadith, the man made books that Allah never sent or revealed to anyone. No wonder that Mohammed himself will bear witness against them on the judgment day, let?????????????????????¢??s read:

And the messenger would say: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.
[The Quran ; 25:30]

وقال الرسول يا رب ان قومي اتخذوا هذا القران مهجورا

-> How clear, the prophet is bearing witness against his own people that they ignored the Quran: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.

Following Mohammed or any other prophet for that matter, is nothing but following the path of Allah, this is because Mohammed had no mean to warn or guide the people except with the Quran, therefore if we follow Mohammed in the Quran then we are automatically following the path of Allah:

Those who bear the power and those around Him celebrate the praise of their Lord and believe in Him and ask protection for those who believe: Our Lord! You encompassed all things in mercy and knowledge, therefore grant protection to those who turned (to You) and followed Your path, and save them from the torture of the hellfire.
[The Quran ; 40:7]

الذين يحملون العرش ومن حوله يسبحون بحمد ربهم ويؤمنون به ويستغفرون للذين امنوا ربنا وسعت كل شئ رحمة وعلما فاغفر للذين تابوا واتبعوا سبيلك وقهم عذاب الجحيم

-> See what the angels say in the above verse: therefore grant protection to those who turned (to You) and followed Your path. Now, following the man made crap books of hadith, can not be considered following the path of Allah, this is because Allah never sent such flawed books from the first place.

In fact in the following verse we read clearly that Allah ordered us to follow anyone who is humble to Allah:

And if they contend with you that you should associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, do not obey them, and keep company with them in this world kindly, and follow the way of him who turns to Me, then to Me is your return, then will I inform you of what you did.
[The Quran ; 31:15]

وان جاهداك علي ان تشرك بي ما ليس لك به علم فلا تطعهما وصاحبهما في الدنيا معروفا واتبع سبيل من اناب الي ثم الي مرجعكم فانبئكم بما كنتم تعملون

-> See: and follow the way of him who turns to Me , now, some may say Bukhari and Muslim were humble to Allah, well, but we did not see them to confirm that, nor that they are the only humbled ones whom we should follow, rather any humble one, and sure any humble one does not have to write a book for us to follow, rather we take him an example for being humble to Allah, see how it is stated in this verse: and follow the way of him who turns to Me,, a clear example is the believing man during Moses time who was hiding his belief fearing Firon, however at a certain time, he revealed his belief without worrying about the consequence of Firon anger, in fact he even asked the people to follow him:

And he who believed said: O my people! Follow me, I will guide you to the right course;
[The Quran ;]

40:38 وقال الذي امن يا قوم اتبعون اهدكم سبيل الرشاد

-> See how clear it is: And he who believed said: O my people! Follow me, I will guide you to the right course , of course the people at that time can see that man and can judge if he was a humble one that they may follow or not.

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- Thu 19 Feb, 2009 2:32 am
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Clearly, following others is following their footsteps in the belief in Allah, not following them in what books they have wrote, for example here is Ibrahim telling his father to follow him:

O my father! Surely the knowledge has come to me which has not come to you, therefore follow me, I will guide you to an even path.
[The Quran ; 19:43]

يا ابت اني قد جاءني من العلم ما لم ياتك فاتبعني اهدك صراطا سويا

-> See: therefore follow me, I will guide you to an even path.

And here is Harun telling the Jews the same:

And certainly Harun said to them before: O my people! You are only been tried by it, and indeed, your Lord is the Compassionate, therefore follow me and obey my command.
[The Quran ; 20:90]

ولقد قال لهم هارون من قبل يا قوم انما فتنتم به وان ربكم الرحمن فاتبعوني واطيعوا امري

-> See: therefore follow me and obey my command , certainly prophet Harun was not telling them to follow books that he wrote down and were not sent by Allah, impossible.

And Jesus too, he commanded the people to follow him, in this verse Allah is telling us about the true followers of Jesus and their reward:

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to cause you to die and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieved and am making those who followed you above those who disbelieved until the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and l will decide between you concerning that in which you disagree.
[The Quran ; 3:55]

اذ قال الله يا عيسى اني متوفيك ورافعك الي ومطهرك من الذين كفروا وجاعل الذين اتبعوك فوق الذين كفروا الى يوم القيامه ثم الي مرجعكم فاحكم بينكم فيما كنتم فيه تختلفون

-> See what Allah is telling Jesus regarding those who followed him: and am making those who followed you above those who disbelieved until the day of resurrection Certainly Jesus did have man made books of hadith for his followers to follow, rather the Injil that Allah sent down to him. Now, if you look around you, you should see that all Christians claim to be the followers of Jesus, same with Muslims, they all claim to be the followers of Mohammed, the striking similarity between them is that they think that they are followers of those prophets while the fact remains intact, that all those Mushrikoon are not following their prophets, RATHER THEY ARE FOLLOWING WHAT THEIR CONFUSED ULAMAA WROTE DOWN TO THEM. The confused Mushrik Muslims follow their many man made books of hadith, and likewise the confused Christians follow their many man made books that is called NT. Non of them is actually following the words of Allah that were revealed/sent down by Him.

All prophets must be obeyed and followed, Mohammed was no exception in this, see this verse:

And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[The Quran ; 4:64]

وما ارسلنا من رسول الا ليطاع باذن الله ولو انهم اذ ظلموا انفسهم جاؤوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما

-> See: And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , see, even Mohammed was following and obeying the message of Ibrahim, therefore if we do the same, then we are followers and obedient to the commands of Allah.

In the following verse, we read that those unjust people when they face the music of death, they will ask Allah to delay their death so they follow the MESSENGERS:

And warn people of a day when the torture will come to them, then those who did injustice will say: O our Lord! Delay us to a near term, we will answer Your call and follow the messengers. Had you not sworn before that there will be for you no removal.
[The Quran ; 14:44]

وانذر الناس يوم ياتيهم العذاب فيقول الذين ظلموا ربنا اخرنا الي اجل قريب نجب دعوتك ونتبع الرسل اولم تكونوا اقسمتم من قبل ما لكم من زوال

-> See: those who did injustice will say: O our Lord! Delay us to a near term, we will answer Your call and follow the messengers , can you see that the word Messengers is plural, i.e. all messengers should have been followed by all people, not just Mohammed, and I can assure you that all messengers with the exception of Mohammed, never had those man made books describing how they pissed, how they ate, and how they slept with their wives.

Another example is prophet Nuh, he commanded his people to follow him, however they did not and followed something else, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:

Nuh said: My Lord! Indeed, they have disobeyed me and followed him whose wealth and children have added to him nothing but loss.
[The Quran ; 71:21]

قال نوح رب انهم عصوني واتبعوا من لم يزده ماله وولده الا خسارا

-> See: Nuh said: My Lord! Indeed, they have disobeyed me and followed him whose wealth and children have added to him nothing but loss. From this verse we can clearly conclude that following the prophets is following their message, while disobeying the prophets must render the people unbelievers, it is black or white, no grey color in here, however those who chose to follow the messengers can not shirk with the message anything, doing so will create many shades of grey that will only result in confusion after confusion with the final outcome that they will secure their pits in hell, if we choose to follow the messengers then we should only follow what Allah sent with them, because it is not really following the messengers, it is all about following Allah, therefore if we follow the messengers in what Allah has sent with them then we will be following Allah alone. Let?????????????????????¢??s look at the following 2 verses to clarify this very important point:

The example below is hypothetical, i.e. it would have never happened, in this verse, Allah is telling us that if He had punished any people without sending a messenger to them, they would have cried like cowards and asked Him that if He has sent a messenger to them, they would have followed something, let?????????????????????¢??s see what that something is:

And had We destroyed them with torture before this, they would have said: O our Lord! Why did You not send to us a messenger so we would have followed Your signs before we were humiliated and disgraced?
[The Quran ; 20:134]

ولو انا اهلكناهم بعذاب من قبله لقالوا ربنا لولا ارسلت الينا رسولا فنتبع اياتك من قبل ان نذل ونخزي

-> See the hypothetical example: And had We destroyed them with torture before this, they would have said: O our Lord! Why did You not send to us a messenger , now you expect that they would continue saying: so we follow him, but they did not say so, rather: so we would have followed Your signs before we were humiliated and disgraced, see how clear it is, they did not ask for a messenger to follow him, rather asked for a messenger to follow the signs of Allah, i.e. we should only follow the messengers in all the sings from Allah they brought in, not following them in how they piss, or how they eat, or how they sleep with their wives, it just does not make sense to follow them in everything they did in their daily lives, and if it does make sense to follow them in how they piss, how they eat and how they slept with their wives, then the sense must be IDOL WORSHIPPINHG

The same message is repeated again:

And were it not that there should befall them a disaster for what their hands have sent before, then they should say: Our Lord! Why did You not send to us a messenger so we would have followed Your signs and been of the believers!
[The Quran ; 28:47]

ولولا ان تصيبهم مصيبة بما قدمت ايديهم فيقولوا ربنا لولا ارسلت الينا رسولا فنتبع اياتك ونكون من المؤمنين

-> See: Why did You not send to us a messenger so we would have followed Your signs , SEE HOW THEY DID NOT SAY: SO WE FOLLOW THEM, this means that following the message of all prophets is the exact same as following Allah signs, this only apply if we follow the prophets in what Allah sent with the messengers, certainly, how they pissed was not a sign from Allah, how they ate, was not a sign from Allah and how they slept with their women was not a sign of Allah, therefore those confused humans who want to follow Mohammed, in how he pissed, how he ate, how he grew a beard, and how he slept with his wives, are nothing but a bunch of idol worshippers, it is exactly the same as those who take the singers or the sports heroes as idols, by wearing what they wear or doing things in life like as they do exactly.

Prophet Shuaib also asked the people to follow him, while the opposition was asking the people not to follow him:

And the chiefs who have disbelieved from among his people said: If you follow Shuaib, then certainly you shall be losers.
[The Quran ; 7:90]

وقال الملا الذين كفروا من قومه لئن اتبعتم شعيبا انكم اذا لخاسرون

-> See: And the chiefs who have disbelieved from among his people said: If you follow Shuaib, then certainly you shall be losers. SEE HOW WITH EVERY PROPHET/MESSENGER, the people should have followed them, Mohammed is no exception, and most certainly Shuaib did not have such man made books of hadith about him for the people to follow.

Prophet Hud too, asked the people to follow him, yet they did not, rather followed the command of every stubborn tyrant:

And that was Ad; they denied the signs of their Lord, and disobeyed His messengers and followed the command of every stubborn tyrant.
[The Quran ; 11:59]

وتلك عاد جحدوا بايات ربهم وعصوا رسله واتبعوا امر كل جبار عنيد

-> See: And that was Ad; they denied the signs of their Lord, and disobeyed His messengers and followed the command of every stubborn tyrant.

Those people who like to follow the humans in things that Allah never sent, come in masses over the history, for example the people of Musa, instead of following him they followed Firon:

To Pharaoh and his chiefs, but they followed the command of Pharaoh, and the command of Pharaoh was not guided
[The Quran ; 11:97]

الي فرعون وملئه فاتبعوا امر فرعون وما امر فرعون برشيد

-> See: but they followed the command of Pharaoh

Following the message of belief does not really need a book, for example, people who are not believers after hearing the message, are following Satan, and as we know Satan has no books for them to follow:

Indeed, My servants, you have over them no authority except those who follow you from among the deviators.
[The Quran ;15:42]

ان عبادي ليس لك عليهم سلطان الا من اتبعك من الغاوين

-> See what Allah is telling Satan: except those who follow you from among the deviators. And indeed, many follow Satan without reading any book:

And certainly the Shaitan found true his conjecture concerning them, so they follow him, except a party of the believers.
[The Quran ; 34:20]

ولقد صدق عليهم ابليس ظنه فاتبعوه الا فريقا من المؤمنين

-> See: And certainly the Shaitan found true his conjecture concerning them, so they follow him, except a party of the believers. Certainly Satan never produced a book for those deviators to follow, yet they are called FOLLOWERS

See how for following Satan, it does not need to follow any books, an example of such people are the enemy of Islam on FFI web site http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/index.php , who argue about Allah on a daily basis, and guess what, they too are followers, the followers of Satan that is:

And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge, and follows every rebellious Shaitan;
[The Quran ; 22:3]

ومن الناس من يجادل في الله بغير علم ويتبع كل شيطان مريد

-> See: And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge, and follows every rebellious Shaitan

Let me show you an example of following the prophet:

And thus We have made you a moderate nation that you may be witnesses against the people and the messenger may be a witness against you; and We did not make the Qiblah that you observed in the past except that We know who follows the messenger from the one who turns back upon his heels, and it was surely huge except for those whom Allah has guided; and it is not for Allah to make your faith of no value; indeed Allah is Kind and Merciful to all the people.
[The Quran ; 2:143]

وكذلك جعلناكم امه وسطا لتكونوا شهداء على الناس ويكون الرسول عليكم شهيدا وما جعلنا القبله التي كنت عليها الا لنعلم من يتبع الرسول ممن ينقلب على عقبيه وان كانت لكبيره الا على الذين هدى الله وما كان الله ليضيع ايمانكم ان الله بالناس لرؤوف رحيم

-> See above, Allah has changed the Qiblah, now Mohammed should have delivered such message which is already stated in the Quran that it was a command from Allah to change the Qiblah, why you think that Allah commanded to change the Qiblah? To expose those who are the true followers of the prophet or not, see: and We did not make the Qiblah that you observed in the past except that We know who follows the messenger from the one who turns back upon his heels . Certainly I followed the messenger as many people did in such Qiblah aspect, an aspect that is clearly a command from Allah, yet Allah is referring to it as if it was a command from Mohammed that we should follow him through, HOW CLEAR. This means that we should only follow Mohammed in what Allah has commanded him, not in how he ate, not in how he pissed and not in how he slept with his wives, now, for those who like to take Mohammed as an idol in all these activates, then I have bad news for them, they are rendered IDOL WORSHIPPERS.

The striking fact of the matter is this, not only the people should follow the messengers, but they may also follow other believers, let?????????????????????¢??s see this example which is directed at the believers:

And if you invite them to the guidance, they will not follow you; it is the same to you whether you invite them or you are silent.
[The Quran ; 7:193]

وان تدعوهم الي الهدي لا يتبعوكم سواء عليكم ادعوتموهم ام انتم صامتون

-> See what Allah is telling all the believers: And if you (plural) invite them to the guidance, they will not follow you (plural), I have added the word (plural) in brackets so those who know no Arabic understand that the message is for the believers and not for Mohammed alone, this verse clearly proves that not only Mohammed or other prophets that should be followed, rather all those who call for the way of Allah should be followed. Mohammed was no expectation.

Now, if we want to follow other people who call for the way of Allah, then they must be calling for the way of Allah, if we follow them in anything else except the call for Allah, then I can assure you that following most of those on earth will lead their followers astray:

And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from way of Allah; indeed they do not follow but conjecture and indeed they are only mute.
[The Quran ; 6:116]

وان تطع اكثر من في الارض يضلوك عن سبيل الله ان يتبعون الا الظن وان هم الا يخرصون

-> See: And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from way of Allah; , why is that you reckon? Because those people who use other man made crap books of hadith or other man made books only follow conjectures, see: indeed they do not follow but conjecture and indeed they are only mute. I honestly cannot wait until that day, when all those man made hadith worshippers will be mute.

Now, if we are talking about following the sayings of others (not the words of Allah), then Allah told us clearly in His Quran that we should FOLLOW the best of sayings:

Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding.
[The Quran ; 39:18]

الذين يستمعون القول فيتبعون احسنه اولئك الذين هداهم الله واولئك هم اولوا الالباب

-> See: Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; , certainly all these man made books of hadith are the sayings of all these people, it can not be the saying of Allah, therefore according to 39:18, the believers in Allah are permitted to reject many of these hadith sayings that can not be the best of sayings, how the following can be the best of saying:

1- The allegation that the prophet married Aysha when she was 6 years old, which does not make any sense.
2- The allegation that the prophet used to sleep with all his wives in an hour of a day or an hour of a night while not having a bath in between, which contradict the Quran
3- The allegation to drink camel urine, which does not make any sense
4- The allegation of stoning the adulterers, which contradicts the Quran
5- The allegation of killing the apostates, which contradicts the Quran.
6- The allegation that the prophet used to drink wine, which contradicts the Quran

I can keep listing many of such crap and non sense that are only found in the man made crap books of hadith.

There is only one criteria to be able to judge if any saying is bad, good or best, the criteria is simply to compare all such conjectures with the Quran, if it violates it the slightest then such saying can not be best, nor even good, rather a clear cut bad saying that much be rejected and dismissed in the nearest rubbish bin, yet you see most of those Muslims upholding such non sense as if it is from other divine books next to the book of Allah, would that be a type of SHIRK? I say it has to be if you read the following verse:

And most of them do not believe in Allah except while they are polytheists.
[The Quran ; 12:106]

وما يؤمن اكثرهم بالله الا وهم مشركون

-> Now, 12:106 is very clear, it is talking about those who claim to believe in Allah, i.e. the Muslims must be included, the context of the above verse has to apply to all humanity, in fact it applies more to the Muslims who boldly claim to believe in Allah, they are indeed believers, that is what 12:106 is telling us, however the same verse is telling us that they are Mushrikoon at the same time, now many of them may say, but the Muslims claim no other god next to Allah, well, I have very bad news for them, Shirk is many types, the most obvious one is to claim that there is another god with Allah, even children should know that, and I agree that the Muslims do not belong to the polytheists of that type, however they certainly belong to the following Mushrikoon:

Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that which Allah does not sanction? And were it not for the word of judgment, decision would have certainly been given between them; and surely the unjust shall have a painful punishment.
[The Quran ; 42:21]

ام لهم شركاء شرعوا لهم من الدين ما لم ياذن به الله ولولا كلمة الفصل لقضي بينهم وان الظالمين لهم عذاب اليم

-> One of the sectarian sunni Muslims whom I debated over a year ago and confronted him with the above verse, he came back with a lame and stupid reply, he told me that 42:21 does not say that following the books of hadith is Shirk, to be honest, I just dismissed him on the fly, I have no time for such stubborn and confused people, and ironically I am not inviting them to the way of Allah, I am only confronting them as well exposing them, see, I agree that the above verse does not say that following the man made books of hadith is shirk, HOWEVER the verse is clearly describing to us an act of shirk, the act of following what the humans prescribe in the religion that Allah never sanctioned, see: Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that which Allah does not sanction? HOW CLEAR, how many Imam, Mufti, Sheikh and Mullahs have prescribed to us in the religion what Allah never sanctioned? And from where all those associates bring their prescription? The answer should be clear, it is from their man made crap books of hadith, the books that Allah never sent down nor revealed it to the prophet. You need to read such crap books and find for yourself that at least 90% of it is pure non sense, at least 50% of those 90% are at best described as cheap episodes from Jerry Springer show. On top of that you must consider the following facts:

1- The hadith contradict itself within the same book.
2- The hadith writers contradict other hadith writers.
3- Many of the hadith in all books CLEARLY contradict Allah words.

Holy crap, surely these books can not be the straight path that Allah sent down and want us to follow, there is no straightness in it, rather confusion after confusion and contradiction after contradiction, let me give you a very clear and simple to understand example:

We have been taught that we may shorten our prayers (Taqsir Al Salat) if we travel more than 80 km or about, on the other hand Allah is telling us something else regarding Taqsir Al Salat, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:

And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, indeed the unbelievers are your obvious enemy.
[The Quran ; 4:101]

واذا ضربتم في الارض فليس عليكم جناح ان تقصروا من الصلاة ان خفتم ان يفتنكم الذين كفروا ان الكافرين كانوا لكم عدوا مبينا

-> See how clear the reason to shorten the prayer as stated by Allah: And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, i.e. IF ONLY THE UNBELIEVERS IN SUCH LAND MAY CAUSE DISCORD TO US WHEN THEY SEE US PRAYING, it has absolutely nothing to do with distances, rather the fear that the unbelievers in such land where we travelled will try to cause discord to you, it can be even in next town 5 Km away, and certainly if I travel 1000 km to a land where its people will not cause discord to me when they see me praying, then there is absolutely no shortening in my prayer.

The above example proves the stupidity and ignorance of most Muslims, you know why they are so stupid and ignorant when it comes to the religion, because they are blindly following what their parents taught them, fine accept what your parent teach you, but as long as it does not contradict or manipulate what Allah has commanded regarding the same matter, now if you do and take such non sense of a reason to shorten the prayer, then I am sorry to tell you that 42:21 must apply to you, because YOU FOLLOWED WHAT THESE PEOPLE PRESCRIBED IN THE RELIGION THAT ALLAH NEVER SANCTIONED, and in this case of shortening the prayer, Allah even sanctioned something else that is totally ignored by all those Muslims who shorten their prayer, I am telling you, these people must be Mushrikoon along their belief. It cannot get more obvious for Allah sake.

Here you have it, the actions of all those confused Muslims caused a retarded punk of a kafir like Khalil Fariel of FFI to come and have balls to say all his crap that you can not be a Muslim without believing in the books of hadith, as if the retarded punk know what a Muslim is, however I have to excuse such punk because in my last 25 years of life I have discovered the fact that most Muslims do not know what a Muslim mean, that is because they ignored the Quran and only pondered upon the man made crap books of hadith, this is obvious if you go to any mosque on Friday prayer and listen to the khutbah i.e. Speech of all those confused Imams, all they talk about is, hadith, hadith, hadith hadith, and Mohammed, Mohammed, Mohammed, Mohammed, very sickening indeed, you know why I called it as such, well let me show you the next verse:

And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone.
[The Quran ; 72:18]

وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا

-> How clear again, I say yeh those Imams mention the name of the Allah, BUT ONLY WHEN THEY PRAISE MOHAMMED, i.e. when they mention Mohammed, they say Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, see in the process of praising Mohammed, they mentioned Allah, WITHOUT PRAISINSG ALLAH, in fact if you read the English writings of many of those confused Muslims, you will always see most of them writing the word Mohammed then after it in brackets (SAWS), i.e. the confused freaks abbreviated the name of Allah to the letter A while writing the name of Mohammed complete, HOW DUMB AND CONFUSED THEY ARE. The Arab writers are as confused as those English writers, when they write Mohammed in Arabic you see after it straight away in very tiny font and the words on top of each other ?????????????????????¢??Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam?????????????????????¢?? in Arabic, you can barely ready the word Allah in it, or they just write the letter ?????????????????????¢??Sad?????????????????????¢?? between brackets, you can see a sample on this web site http://www.tibneen.com/Mohammad.aspx , how clear that those confused Muslims are clearly Mushrikoon and idol worshippers of Mohammed.

you know why those Mushrikoon shorten the words Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam because they mention Mohammed zillions of times in like 15 minutes speech or one page document, they have to bloody shorten it, otherwise when you try to read such writing it may look like that it is the only sentence in there Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, regardless of my joke, the fact remains intact that they also mention the name of Allah zillions of times while when they praise Mohammed, while absolutely not caring to praise Him the slightest, all they care about is to praise Mohammed, let me show you the next verse and see for yourself the striking similarity:

And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful.
[The Quran ; 39:45]

واذا ذكر الله وحده اشمازت قلوب الذين لا يؤمنون بالاخرة واذا ذكر الذين من دونه اذا هم يستبشرون

-> See the striking similarity: And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful. I agree that the verse above is talking about those who do not believe in the hereafter, while all those confused Muslims claim to believe in the hereafter, however how we know that those Muslims really believe in the hereafter, see these verses:

2:8 And of the people, some who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not believers.
2:9 They deceive Allah and those who believed, and they deceive not but themselves; and they do not perceive.
[The Quran ; 2:8-9]

2:8 ومن الناس من يقول امنا بالله وباليوم الاخر وما هم بمؤمنين
2:9 يخادعون الله والذين امنوا وما يخدعون الا انفسهم وما يشعرون

-> How clear again: And of the people, some who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not believers. , the problem is for them, THAT THEY DO NOT KNOW IT, see: They deceive Allah and those who believed, and they deceive not but themselves; and they do not perceive.

There is no more for me to say, but only for now, I have far, far more to say and I have been saying it for the last 5 years, yet to see one of those who call themselves Muslims, to prove me wrong, but of course by using the Quran only, their man made crap books of hadith can not be admissible as a religious evidence due to its massive flaws.

What is said by FFI retard ?????????????????????¢??Khalil Fariel?????????????????????¢?? is supposed to be his part 1 where he presented 2 Quran verses as his suppose to be compelling evidences that you cannot be a Muslim without following the man made books of hadith , apparently he is working on part 2, but I say, the best course of action he should do after finishing it, is to shove it up his, or up the one for all those confused Muslims, and if he can shove it in both, it will be very much appreciated by me.

Salam
- Thu 19 Feb, 2009 11:14 pm
Post subject:
Salaams, Ahmed

All mushrikeen, munafiqeen and Kafir must be told in clear terms, and this should be drilled into their minds, that Qur'aan is the Scripture of Islam.

Our dear Prophet discussed and argued with the Kafirs, Mushrikeens, Fasiqeens, Munafiqeen and pagans, using only Qur'aan.

So, we must argue, debate and discuss with Qur'aan only. If they wish to talk through the junk stuffs in Hadith, please direct them to Ahle-Hadith and they can have intellectual masturbation.

Baig
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:22 pm
Post subject: FFI: Quran only: This is your podium by Khalil Fariel
I am following your discussions and you have done a great job in the posts which I read.

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/./viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1116

Your responses and those of others are excellent and I sincerely suggest that you bring the entire thread here for record before FFI hooligans litter the place and destroy it. You have put in a lot of time and effort for an easy demolition and it must be made available to readers here. Thanks, mate.

I don't think FFI goons have ever seen anything like that. Razz

Salaams
Baig M Z
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: FFI: Quran only: This is your podium by Khalil Fariel
BMZ wrote:
I am following your discussions and you have done a great job in the posts which I read.

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/./viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1116

Your responses and those of others are excellent and I sincerely suggest that you bring the entire thread here for record before FFI hooligans litter the place and destroy it. You have put in a lot of time and effort for an easy demolition and it must be made available to readers here. Thanks, mate.

I don't think FFI goons have ever seen anything like that. Razz

Salaams
Baig M Z


I acyually should, because this debate has resulted that the hostility between me and Khalil to stop, I feel a bit embarrassed due to his decenet reply to me despiite my insults, however i just could not forget at the time his insults to Allah, Mohammed, Muslims and the Quran

I will try to copy it actually so everyone know why the hostility has stopped

Take care
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:46 pm
Post subject: Re: FFI: Quran only: This is your podium by Khalil Fariel
AhmedBahgat wrote:
BMZ wrote:
I am following your discussions and you have done a great job in the posts which I read.

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/./viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1116

Your responses and those of others are excellent and I sincerely suggest that you bring the entire thread here for record before FFI hooligans litter the place and destroy it. You have put in a lot of time and effort for an easy demolition and it must be made available to readers here. Thanks, mate.

I don't think FFI goons have ever seen anything like that. Razz

Salaams
Baig M Z


I actually should, because this debate has resulted that the hostility between me and Khalil to stop, I feel a bit embarrassed due to his decent reply to me despite my insults, however i just could not forget at the time his insults to Allah, Mohammed, Muslims and the Quran

I will try to copy it actually so everyone know why the hostility has stopped

Take care


Good.

If anyone insults Allah, Muhammad, Muslims and Qur'aan, you still have the right to hammer back.

Please keep the entire thread as a record.

Cheers, mate
Baig
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:49 pm
Post subject:
Salam all

This is Khalil reply to my long comment above:

KhaliL FarieL of FFI said:

Hello Ahmed Bahgat,


First of all congratulations..! You demolished my first writing in this series with your superior knowledge of Quran. Indeed this is a great performance.

I will thank Ahmed for his time now though he does not seem to have taken much time to compose such knock-out stuff. I posted it earlier yesterday and Ahmed came with refutation within a short period of time. And after Ahmed posted it, all these times I was reading and thinking of the way of refuting it. But I could not find any way to counter those arguments. It is not easy to refute a solid argument if presented with enough back up sources. And to be frank,. If proven wrong, I have no problem in admitting it and here when it is Ahmed Bahgat as my contester, I do not consider this as a disgrace. Losing to a knowledgeable person is not a disgrace if our position is weak.

All that said Ahmed, I will keep the opening post there though it is largely refuted by you. It must remain there for readers to go through and to get the story. But I have a request to you here: Since most of the readers will not be going through lengthy posts they will only read first few lines of your post and abandon it. So, you may edit your post to shorten it. To be frank, the first verse (3:68) you brought is sufficient to prove your case. (I am sure you know that but was only adding more stuffs to strengthen it but that is not necessary as you think.) You made your case handsomely using 3:68, so my suggestion is: your points will be more pronounced if you can just keep a few verses and erase the rest. If needed you have your website to post the full version for further uses.., (Why do not you consider submitting some of your papers in academic faculties? If you craft them neatly by obliterating punk, jerk, arse :x kinds of ad hominem stuffs, I am sure, you can broaden your credentials.

And, I should not be arrogant here so let me say: if anyone can defend my contention and refute Ahmed Bahgat, they are welcome. My failure does not mean all else will. There are brilliant people around and who knows they will have a way to prove Ahmed wrong..!

I abandon this thread since it does not make sense to add my second line of arguments here in the same. This thread now belongs to Ahmed Bahgat because he is the winner. I will start another thread with my remaining arguments on why Quran only approach is flawed. First argument is refuted but more still remain with me. But I understand I have to be more careful so, I will wait before posting. (I am sure; Ahmed Bahgat will come up there too) :) LOL

Regards and thank you Ahmed for your time, I stay corrected in this thread.

KF
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:53 pm
Post subject:
I actually felt a bit bad after hos reply due to the fact that I was rude to him and he was not, however he was ging mad insulting all on FFI, and I just could not know if he is sincere or not:

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
Hello Ahmed Bahgat,
First of all congratulations..! You demolished my first writing in this series with your superior knowledge of Quran. Indeed this is a great performance.



Hello

Because you acted decently despite my insults I decided to remove you from the CCCLDFFI list, this is life, you respect others, you should be respected, nothing really for me to add, as i yet to read your comment
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:55 pm
Post subject:
One very shifty FFI member tried to polute the air between me and Khalil:

antineoETC of FFI said:

AhmedBahgat wrote:
One of the filthy, retarded, confused and shameless kafir on FFI (Khalil Fariel) is still promoting his ignorance desiring that the Muslims should uphold the crap called hadith, this is what the filthy has to say:

The retarded kafir Khlail Fariel said on FFI:


Firstly AB, Why do you feel the need to describe the forum member Khalil Fariel with such epithets as those I have highlighted above? Has he ever referred to you in such language?

So I replied:

That's between me and him, please piss off
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 2:55 pm
Post subject:
Then i replied to the rest of Khalil reply:

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
I will thank Ahmed for his time now though he does not seem to have taken much time to compose such knock-out stuff.


No worries, however when it comes to the Quran, it has my first priority, I also enjoy my Quran study, I started at 3 PM and finished by 2:00 AM or about, I only had 1 hours break to translate the 20 verses a day that I have to do

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
I posted it earlier yesterday and Ahmed came with refutation within a short period of time.


My software Access Quran helped me great deal in shottening it to less than one day, if I was using the web to look for the verses it would have taken me at least 2 days, I am still gettin used to use my Application though

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
And after Ahmed posted it, all these times I was reading and thinking of the way of refuting it. But I could not find any way to counter those arguments. It is not easy to refute a solid argument if presented with enough back up sources. And to be frank,. If proven wrong, I have no problem in admitting it and here when it is Ahmed Bahgat as my contester, I do not consider this as a disgrace. Losing to a knowledgeable person is not a disgrace if our position is weak.


And to be frank, I was not really aiming at refuting you, I was aiming more at refuting the confused Muslims, the article is posted on Facebook also, and all my network of family and friends received a copy of it, I had to format it to suit facebook though but with find and replace it took 2 minutes, back to the point, let me just say that I used you to refute the confused Muslims

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
All that said Ahmed, I will keep the opening post there though it is largely refuted by you. It must remain there for readers to go through and to get the story. But I have a request to you here: Since most of the readers will not be going through lengthy posts they will only read first few lines of your post and abandon it. So, you may edit your post to shorten it. To be frank, the first verse (3:31) you brought is sufficient to prove your case. (I am sure you know that but was only adding more stuffs to strengthen it but that is not necessary as you think.) You made your case handsomely using 3:31, so my suggestion is: your points will be more pronounced if you can just keep a few verses and erase the rest. If needed you have your website to post the full version for further uses..,


The point is, my writings are directed at those who will read it, it is not directed at those who will not read it in full, this put me in the driving seat as for any to refute, they must refute all the verses I posted, that is if they are keen to refute as I have been.

Another point also is my writings are also directed at me, i.e. I read my writings and enjoy reading it, that is how I keep dicovering my typos and shit and keep fixing them, the objective of that is to solidify my Quran knowledge so if I ever debate anyone especially from the confused Muslims, then I must be ready to answer everything they say while proving them wrong at the same time, this can not happen unless I know the message of every Quran verse as i know my name, and this can't happen without my lengthy writings, so far I do not know every message of each verse as i know my name, what I mean is not memorising it, rather understanidng the message, and by goiong through every word in each verse numerous times, I guess it has to be of a help if I ever confront one of those hard core sectarians

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
(Why do not you consider submitting some of your papers in academic faculties?


I am not really aiming at that while I of course love to do it, I am just following the flow through my Quran study and whatever happen in the future is in the hand of Allah.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
If you craft them neatly by obliterating punk, jerk, arse :x kinds of ad hominem stuffs, I am sure, you can broaden your credentials.


Of course I am always considering that and I can do it with ease, I just enjoy my freedom of speech as well dealing with many kafirs enemy of Islam has affected me and made me that aggressive, i guess the solution for me is to stay away from their web sites and just refute them on my web site, on the other hand i look at it really in a different way and more practical way, see, you may consider me gordon ramsy of the religions, in fact if gordon was not swearing that hard, no one would have ever known and loved him, in addition to that I hate pretending to be someting else to gain credit or admiration, if anyone will give me any credit or admire my work then it has to be because I was being myself.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
And, I should not be arrogant here so let me say: if anyone can defend my contention and refute Ahmed Bahgat, they are welcome. My failure does not mean all else will. There are brilliant people around and who knows they will have a way to prove Ahmed wrong..!


Well, I really do not look at it this way, the way of win and defeat, I careless if I am considered a loser or a winner in the eyes of any one but myself, and myself here is controlled but what Allah told me to do, it is not really accoridng to myself.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
I abandon this thread since it does not make sense to add my second line of arguments here in the same. This thread now belongs to Ahmed Bahgat because he is the winner. [background=white]I will start another thread with my remaining arguments on why Quran only approach is flawed. First argument is refuted but more still remain with me.[/background] But I understand I have to be more careful so, I will wait before posting. (I am sure; Ahmed Bahgat will come up there too) :) LOL


Again, this is not about winning or losing in my eyes, you have posted many things and i never replied to it, however I was motivated in this thread because you were trying to flaw my own belief, which again I proved was not accoridng to my own, rather accoridng to what Allah said and what the common sense suggest.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:

Regards and thank you Ahmed for your time, I stay corrected in this thread.

KF


No worries, let's keep it clean
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 3:01 pm
Post subject:
I was asked a question by another kafir during the discussion with Khalil:

skynightblaze wrote:
@ahmed
I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran?


Well, the religion of Ibrahim is really nothing than submitting to Allah, you know Ibrahim was the one who called us Muslims, again your man made books of hadith are not needed but if you desire to shove it up yours, please do, I can help ya in that too

And another question by another Kafir who is an inmate in my Cyber Correctional Centre for the Life Dismissals of FFI:

Ahmed chose to reply to one of the CCCLDFFI inmates

Trojan wrote:
Ahmed,
I know you will ignore me, but for the benefit of others and the thread, will you please explain the following:
Where in the koran did allah tell you that all Muslim males have to be circumcized? Show me a single verse in the koran that says it. Yet you have willingly lobbed of the end of your son's penis' for generations .....no? Did this ritual not come from the hadiths ? ? ?


I have replied to this many times, do not follow the footsteps of uncrcumcised and filthy pisscohot

As I said many times, Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, and as you know a Doctor is one who have authority to have a say regarding such matter that can cause filth and risk to the human health, and because most doctors agreed that it should be done for males to protect their health, the Muslims should obey them, on the other hand I do not think that by not obeying them they would have committed any sin

back to your cell
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 3:03 pm
Post subject:
Khalil added his afterthoughts:

KhaliL FarieL of FFI said:

My afterthoughts

Piscohot asks how exactly Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham; It is easy as Ahmed made it clear in his response.


The verse Ahmed chosen to start is Quran 3:68 read as:

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Messenger and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.[Quran 3:68]

This should be understood in its context. The verse precedes it(67) confirms Abraham was neither Jewish nor Christian but was a Hanif Muslim. Just knowing Abraham was a Muslim was made sufficient for Muhammad and Muslims under him to follow Abraham?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting.

Ahmed Bahgat has a solid case here as a Muslim.

If Muhammad could follow Abraham?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting because Allah assured him within a few words, that is sufficient for Ahmed Bahgat to argue the same Allah?????????????????????¢??s words Quran is sufficient for Muslims to follow Muhammad?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting to Allah. No additional materials are necessary. A Muslim can research through Quran and find out the truth about his god and the way of submitting to him.

To be succinct, Ahmed proved following Muhammad does not require knowing the person?????????????????????¢??s details rather what Allah said about the person Muhammad and Muhammad?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting is enough. So, the argument I brought in my OP as to follow a person one should know the person in details is thoroughly refuted by Ahmed Bahgat using Quran. I am convinced in this matter.

In normal lives we can argue if I want to follow a person for example Gandhi, I should know Gandhi in details. But here the matter is connected to faith. Faith does not require more but just believing in what has said to be believed is sufficient for a believer. And Ahmed Bahgat is a believer and he can believe whatever Quran commands him to believe in the way Allah instructed. If Muhammad and Muslims under Muhammad could follow Abraham without the help of any other sources except Allah?????????????????????¢??s words of assurance, why should Ahmed Bahgat a Muslim needs any other materials than Allah?????????????????????¢??s words (Quran) to believe in Allah and to submit to him in subservience?

Ahmed Bahgat proved his case, so my argument in the OP does not stand. It is all I meant.
______________________________________________________

And @Ahmed Bahgat,

When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus?????????????????????¢??s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes. That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions. You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts. IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran why not try for it? Acquiring a PhD should not be your aim rather your efforts can sometimes help Muslims to shed their seventh century burden and get along with the evolving time. {But you should be careful in this case, as there are fanatics around who can not tolerate your views}

And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration. That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have. Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed. It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed; (I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there.

The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults. Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don?????????????????????¢??t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :)

PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.

Cheers
KF
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 3:04 pm
Post subject:
This is my reply to Khalil afterthoughts above:


KhaliL FarieL wrote:
[background=white]And @Ahmed Bahgat[/background],

When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus?????????????????????¢??s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes.


Sure, and for the case I made regarding Jesus death, it is not something that I invented, it was something that I learnt many years ago from a Muslim sheikh who is very well respected by all Muslim Ummah, Shiekh Sharaawi who died about three years ago, that sheikh was a professor in the Arabic language, and he was the most wanted to do the Hajj Khutba, he is an Egyptian though, all accresses and actors in Egypt who quit acting, did so after talking to him directly. In fact the Saudi government one day asked the Egyptian government to relocate him to S A and they will pay his weight as gold and the offer was declined, he is my Quran mentor and through him I learnt how to cross reference the Quran, and possibly it will be done better by someone who has access to technology and even can create technology for it.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions.


Ironically mate, I found it so easy to search the Quran if you know the words Arabic root, I wonder how all those confused Arab Muslim don?????????????????????¢??t do it after the massive computer revolution for the last 10 years or so

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts.


The one who can make a difference is Allah, possibly they have been cursed into the days of Jahilyah again, who klnows, what I can only do is my best in proving that many of these idolgies that we inherited do not belong to the Quran, rather may be influenced by some sick human minds, the women marriage and divorce is a clear case of that, however they manipulate Allah laws to suit their desires of continuing to oppress the women, an act they inherited from their fathers again, you can see this clearly in a country like S A where their oppression of women is so bold that they prevent them from driving, while we see in the Quran te wives of the prophet have been appointed to an executive role.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran


That can not be called reforming nor redefining, rather back to originality, especially that I am a literal type of guy,, i.e. I take all the Quran words as literal unless there is good logical reason not to do so, i.e. I should take it as a metaphor, and even in such case I do not violate my own literal law, because for me the literal meaning of a metaphor is a metaphor.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
why not try for it?


Certainly it is an objective that I have, I will be delighted to dedicate my 24 hours a day for serving Allah, currently I can?????????????????????¢??t as I have debits to take care of, mortgages to pay and young children to raise, however I am trying to fit it as a full time job sithin all these must do activities to survive.

Acquiring a PhD should not be your aim rather your efforts can sometimes help Muslims to shed their seventh century burden and get along with the evolving time. {But you should be careful in this case, as there are fanatics around who can not tolerate your views}

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration.


I agree, but as you can predict that my first line of fire is going to be the Arab Muslims, and I can assure you that when dealing with Arabs and corner them, they will start attacking you maliciously, I inherited such malice attack from them, however my causes to attack is absolutely different to them, I attack who attack, I never start with an attack, yet again, I am doing what the Quran tell me to do exactly.

The Arabs too are known for resorting to cheap moves, something that I never do or at least try not to do, sometime you are forced to be cheap though, the bottom line is this, iit is not like I will go and tell them in the most nicest way, come on guys, you are wrong because the Quran said so and so, I must be attacked and they must attack my own personality, I am sure you have seen it in here, and I have seen it myself so many times with such unique race of people, not unique in any ting better than others, rather unique in their way of life and in their way of understanding life, an example is this:

That guy whom I mentioned in my article in this thread who I confronted with 42:21 and he acted dumb by telling me that 42:21 does not say that following Bukhari book is shirk, that guy asked me to talk directly through msn, while I really hate such chat as it is a huge time wasting activity, I did not let him down and gave him my msn address, he quickly contacted me and at that time I had my avatar of myself, my wife and my two children, now my wife is a Muslim western woman, who pears pair of pants like most western women and even Arab women do, the arsehole used such image to attack me, and my wife on such Arabic web site, by all of a sudden telling everyone not to listen to me because I am full of shit and that was obvious from the photo of my family that he saw, then he started talking ill about my wife, what a piece of jerk he was mate, I totally demolished him in the most malice manner possible, those confused people do not even understand the message of the Quran that no one can guide anyone even the loved ones but Allah guides whomsoever he wills, that does not mean that my wife is not guided, quite the contrary she is a Hajjah as well, something that I yet to do, all in all dealing with such race is different and I believe that I will be most suited to deal with them because I came from them then blessed with the chance to gain knowledge and educate myself in civilised environment, that is what is going to make me effective with them, on the other hand it will take a great deal from me to ignore their personal attacks and continue in a nice way, I must attack those who attack me, this is everyone?????????????????????¢??s right, with religion or without, self defence is a must.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have.


But I am sure many of them read my writings in here, and as you can see for yourself that non of those so called Muslim is able to reply to me, XXX is another example of such, I even went to their web sites, and surely I have taken their attention, but quick they show the other face and either ban you or threaten you, that is why I created Free Islam.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed.


Look, I am trying to give it a bit of funand a bit of a story line, you know as inmate pis alleges, I am the story telle. The bottom line is this, if I do not do that, it will be a very boring game to play.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed;


See, on that period of time, I had a dismissal sale, and you should expect that it will attract more customers, everyone is looking for bargain

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
(I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there.


I reckon Miss Waste at least will be permeant in there

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults.Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don?????????????????????¢??t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :)


Keep it clean and do not insult Allah or any of his prophets and you will never be there, you may mock Isla,m, Muslims and the Quran and myself, but I just cannot see myself dialoguing with people who mock Allah or any of His prophets, it won?????????????????????¢??t happen. Even with so called Muslims. And I consider their man made books of hadith is clear mocking to the prophet and even to Allah.

KhaliL FarieL wrote:
PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.
Cheers
KF


No worries

Salam
- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 3:10 pm
Post subject:
Then that shifty goon anti kept harassing me:


antineoETC wrote:
Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:
Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?:
Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)Thanks


AhmedBahgat wrote:
How about you be strightforward first and tell me what is that you are trying to prove?


antineoETC wrote:
Why don't you just answer my straightforward question Muslim? Otherwise just say "I'm not answering that" and let people draw their own conclusions. I'm not going to bring an english rendering of that verse and have you take issue with its accuracy.


AhmedBahgat wrote:
How about, you are dismissed


antineoETC wrote:
Another "slam dunk" by the "great debater" eh AB?


antineoETC wrote:
Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)


antineoETC wrote:
So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?


So I replied with a real slam:

Let me show you what a slam dunk is:

antineoETC wrote:
Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)
So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?



4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.
[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I?????????????????????¢??m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don?????????????????????¢??t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

And that is what is called :

- Tue 24 Feb, 2009 3:12 pm
Post subject:
One of the kafirs of FFI was not happy with Khalil decent concession to my refute:

Centaur wrote:
I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come
Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj
So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad?


So Khalil replied to him:
Dear Centaur,

Nothing weird has happened to me. I was certain my post will incite these kinds of doubts in FFI, but let me say, I am staying under Sharia but gives no damn to it. I am still against Islam; you can check my recent post in Muslims and Ex-Muslims section. Here is the link: http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1084


This thread was started by me and I brought forth a point which I thought will prove Quran only is not possible for Muslims. But that point has been refuted by Ahmed Bahgat and I was being honest to admit it. Let me say again: I appreciate Ahmed Bahgat?????????????????????¢??s work which refuted my opening post. If a point is refuted and if I understand it is no longer stands, I have no problem in admitting it. And the person who refuted me deserves credit too. I congratulated Ahmed for it.

And one point to understand is this thread is not meant to refute Islam, but a notion among Muslims. And what Ahmed Bahgat refuted is one of the many of my points and conclusion can made only after I bring forth all of my points. So this contest is still open. I mentioned it in my post to Ahmed too. I will be creating another thread with other points. My first post is refuted. All credit to Ahmed Bahgat. Now, I will bring my other points but let me take my time.

Please do not make any hasty conclusions. If Ahmed Bahgat is making good points, he deserves our respect because here clash of ideas occur; not clash of personalities..

I have many disagreements with Ahmed Bahgat and they still stand. But that is not a bar for me to respect the person when he is coming up with substance.

Please stay tuned.

Regards
KF
- Wed 25 Feb, 2009 7:35 am
Post subject:
Salam,

Brother Ahmed please keep posting here!
- Wed 25 Feb, 2009 9:04 pm
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
One of the kafirs of FFI was not happy with Khalil decent concession to my refute:

Centaur wrote:
I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come
Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj
So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad?


So Khalil replied to him:
Dear Centaur,

Nothing weird has happened to me. I was certain my post will incite these kinds of doubts in FFI, but let me say, I am staying under Sharia but gives no damn to it. I am still against Islam; you can check my recent post in Muslims and Ex-Muslims section. Here is the link: http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1084


This thread was started by me and I brought forth a point which I thought will prove Quran only is not possible for Muslims. But that point has been refuted by Ahmed Bahgat and I was being honest to admit it. Let me say again: I appreciate Ahmed Bahgat?????????????????????¢??s work which refuted my opening post. If a point is refuted and if I understand it is no longer stands, I have no problem in admitting it. And the person who refuted me deserves credit too. I congratulated Ahmed for it.

And one point to understand is this thread is not meant to refute Islam, but a notion among Muslims. And what Ahmed Bahgat refuted is one of the many of my points and conclusion can made only after I bring forth all of my points. So this contest is still open. I mentioned it in my post to Ahmed too. I will be creating another thread with other points. My first post is refuted. All credit to Ahmed Bahgat. Now, I will bring my other points but let me take my time.

Please do not make any hasty conclusions. If Ahmed Bahgat is making good points, he deserves our respect because here clash of ideas occur; not clash of personalities..

I have many disagreements with Ahmed Bahgat and they still stand. But that is not a bar for me to respect the person when he is coming up with substance.

Please stay tuned.

Regards
KF


After reading this, KF earns my appreciation and respect too. We can have our differences but when one is right, the other would naturally accept it. That is the gesture we need on forums.

Thanks for bringing the posts here. Please convey my best wishes and warm regards to Khalil.

Baig
- Wed 25 Feb, 2009 11:47 pm
Post subject:
dear ahmed .
i want to comment on the verses you have selected and it is better for US to discuss before a kafir teaches US in this regards
i know this things will add fuel to their intentions
but
the on road reality is we are like this
Quote:
Mohammed must have followed what Allah revealed to him, see this verse, another 100% Sahih hadith by Mohammed:

Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?
[The Quran ; 6:50]

قل لا اقول لكم عندي خزائن الله ولا اعلم الغيب ولا اقول لكم اني ملك ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي قل هل يستوي الاعمي والبصير افلا تتفكرون

-> How clear, again and again, see what Mohammed was saying to the people: Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Now every single Kafir and Mushrik Muslim should know that what was revealed to Mohammed can not be the man made crap books of hadith, this is because of two obvious reasons:

1- Such crap books called books of hadith did not exist during Mohammed time
2- Allah never revealed such man made crap books of hadith to Mohammed

-> No wonder the verse is ending by telling those confused freaks in yet another 100% sahih hadith by Mohammed: Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?

And again Mohammed confirmed in his true hadith (through the Quran) that he was ONLY following what Allah has revealed to him


Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.
[The Quran ; 46:9]

قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين

-> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me

-> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute.

The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible:


This is a very clear cut statement from GOD, then I don?????????????????????¢??t know why people think Mohammed (pbuh) knows even about the unseen
One thing that comes immediately to my mind is, salman amry in his workshop went on giving a list of people who can intercede
Even he gave a details for example, if child die then that child will intercede its parents, and the lists continues
And there are many things that can be debated by this verse
I mean things that one I had mentioned above
Quote:

And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance.
[The Quran ; 2:170]

واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما الفينا عليه اباءنا اولو كان اباؤهم لا يعقلون شيئا ولا يهتدون

-> It can?????????????????????¢??t get clearer than this, see: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, THAT IS EXACTLY THE CASE WITH ALL THOSE MUSHRIK MUSLIMS BOUND TO HELL, every time I tell those freaks the same Quran message: Follow what Allah has sent down , they tell me boldly, how come all the previous generations in 1400 years were wrong, i.e. they must follow what their fathers used to follow: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers , and even if their fathers were confused as hell, they still follow them, that is is the exact same as the Christians and the Jews, all bound to hell, see what Allah is telling us next: even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance. , i.e. they are nothing but a bunch of stubborn Muzhiks who are in the process of securing their pits in hell. In fact using the same Muslim flawed argument that how come all these generations in 1400 years were flawed, then the Christian argument must be admissible too, that how come all those generations of Christians were flawed over 2000 years, if the Muslims use such flawed argument, then they should dare not to tell the Christians that their religion was flawed for 2000 years.

This common flaw by the humans of following their parents even if their parents know nothing is very common in humanity, look around you and you should see most of those following a religion are only following what they inherited from their parents without thinking if their parents were wrong or not, for them, their parents must have been right:


And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire!
[The Quran ; 31:21]

واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما وجدنا عليه اباءنا اولو كان الشيطان يدعوهم الي عذاب السعير

-> See: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It makes no difference to them if their parents were flawed, it is like they are invited by their parents to the hellfire and they are happy to follow them, see: It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire!

In the next we read clearly what the believers should follow, let?????????????????????¢??s see:


This is a real beauty
I feel, as Christians following bible blindly we Muslim follow hadiths
But if you say those people, they will say, these verses are regarding those pagan arabs , but they fail to put themselves in this verses

Quote:
And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, and follow not the (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His way; this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah).
[The Quran ; 6:153]

وان هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه ولا تتبعوا السبل فتفرق بكم عن سبيله ذلكم وصاكم به لعلكم تتقون

-> See what Allah is telling us to follow: And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, , in fact in the same verse Allah is warning us not to follow any other path: and follow not the (other) ways , sounds like Allah is warning us against these crap books of hadith that He never sent, see what Allah is telling us next, that is if we follow such non sense books of hadith (the other ways): for they will lead you away from His way, HOW CLEAR, this is exactly what happened to the confused Muslims, they ignored what Allah has sent which we should only follow, and followed other man made crap which Allah never sent, which resulted in the division of Islam into numerous sects and ideologies. Can you see that by listening to Allah we will be Muttaqeen (fearful of Allah): this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah). , however the confused Muslims do not want to do that, they do not want to fear Allah, they only fear the heads of shirk through their Mullah, Imams, Muftis and Sheikhs, for them, what those confused punks (the hadith writers and their followers) say, is more of a value than what Allah says. I seek refuge in Allah.

In fact, two verses down, Allah clearly told us what His straight path that we should follow is:


And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy.
[The Quran ; 6:155]

وهذا كتاب انزلناه مبارك فاتبعوه واتقوا لعلكم ترحمون

-> How clear, certainly the straight path of Allah must be through His Quran, see: And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy., therefore those who do not follow it, or shirk it with other books that Allah never sent down do not fear Allah nor they will receive mercy from Him.

We also read in the Sahih Hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) that he asked those freaks to bring another book (FROM ALLAH) other than the Quran that is better so he may follow it:





wish they pay heed to this verses

Quote:
Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it, if you are truthful.
[The Quran ; 28:49]

قل فاتوا بكتاب من عند الله هو اهدي منهما اتبعه ان كنتم صادقين

-> See the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it. Well we know well that all these man made crap books of hadith are not FROM ALLAH, so how come we should follow it? The verse here is clear, that we may follow other books but only if:

1- The book is from Allah
2- The book is better in guidance than the Quran

Now the man made books of hadith are not from Allah nor they are better guidance than the Quran, therefore Muslims have committed no sin by not following such crap books of man made hadith, according to 28:49

Mohammed was a warner for those who accept and follow the Quran, see this verse:


But they uphold hadiths and even they say , quran is not the same as that was reveled to Mohammed (pbuh)
For example, regarding verse 2-106
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
I am happy that shia don?????????????????????¢??t believe this (quran is changed may be because of hadrat umar)

Quote:
Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, little that you remember.
[The Quran ; 7:3]

اتبعوا ما انزل اليكم من ربكم ولا تتبعوا من دونه اولياء قليلا ما تذكرون

-> Very clear that Allah is telling us to follow what he sent down: Follow (plural) what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, , there will be no punk of those kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims who has balls to tell us that these man made crap books of hadith are what Allah has sent down. The fact remains intact, that those punks from among the kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims do not want to remember: little that you remember.

In the next verse we read another Sahih hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) in such hadith, it is clearly said that Mohammed was a believer in Allah words, not Bukhari words, not Muslim words, and certainly not any of those confused hadith writers words:



not only hadiths , but they also take the person whom they like
for exaple . TNTJ people take zainullah as there role model, and people following yasir qadhi and lists goes on ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦.
Without thinking what quran says even what hadiths says

Quote:
And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me; indeed I fear if I disobey my Lord, the torture of a mighty day.
[The Quran ; 10:15]

واذا تتلي عليهم اياتنا بينات قال الذين لا يرجون لقاءنا ائت بقران غير هذا او بدله قل ما يكون لي ان ابدله من تلقاء نفسي ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي اني اخاف ان عصيت ربي عذاب يوم عظيم

-> See: And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. , well it seems that all those hadith writers and their fellow Mushrik Muslims were not happy with the Quran alone, and because Mohammed was dead at that and this time, so they could not ask him likewise the kafir asked him, to bring another book but the Quran, so they created their own books, many of them that contradict each other, as well contradict itself, these books can not be called the straight path, they are indeed the deviant path that most Muslims chose to follow in addition to the straight path of Allah (the Quran), see what Mohammed said to those freaks request as stated in his Sahih Hadith (through the Quran): Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me, i.e. by following Mohammed, we should follow what was revealed to him from Allah, this revelation is nothing but the Quran, that is why those freaks asked him to bring another Quran other than the Quran that Allah sent. You should know that the word Quran implies reading, i.e. those freaks were asking for other books so they read it and seek guidance from it, and that is exactly what happened to the confused Ummah of Muslims, they read such man made books and spread its message between the believers while totally ignoring the Quran, or just giving it the least attention, they are fixated on such man made carp books of hadith, the man made books that Allah never sent or revealed to anyone. No wonder that Mohammed himself will bear witness against them on the judgment day, let?????????????????????¢??s read:



They have done this already
For example muttah
And we can name lots of things like this

Quote:
And the messenger would say: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.
[The Quran ; 25:30]

وقال الرسول يا رب ان قومي اتخذوا هذا القران مهجورا

-> How clear, the prophet is bearing witness against his own people that they ignored the Quran: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.

Following Mohammed or any other prophet for that matter, is nothing but following the path of Allah, this is because Mohammed had no mean to warn or guide the people except with the Quran, therefore if we follow Mohammed in the Quran then we are automatically following the path of Allah:

Muslims need to realize, this verse is talking about Muslims , cos only Muslims read quran
One more interesting verse is the verse that follows this
025.031
YUSUFALI: Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners: but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.


next comes a very intersting topic , i will post tomorrow
- Wed 25 Feb, 2009 11:59 pm
Post subject:
Thank you brother P. Mushtaq for continuing this important discussion, i will wait till you finish your thoughts then I will reply inshaallah

Take care
- Thu 26 Feb, 2009 7:38 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.
[The Quran ; 46:9]

قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين

-> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me

-> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute.

The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible:



Quote:

And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful.
[The Quran ; 39:45]

واذا ذكر الله وحده اشمازت قلوب الذين لا يؤمنون بالاخرة واذا ذكر الذين من دونه اذا هم يستبشرون

-> See the striking similarity: And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful. I agree that the verse above is talking about those who do not believe in the hereafter, while all those confused Muslims claim to believe in the hereafter, however how we know that those Muslims really believe in the hereafter, see these verses:


Quote:

And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone.
[The Quran ; 72:18]

وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا

-> How clear again, I say yeh those Imams mention the name of the Allah, BUT ONLY WHEN THEY PRAISE MOHAMMED, i.e. when they mention Mohammed, they say Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, see in the process of praising Mohammed, they mentioned Allah, WITHOUT PRAISINSG ALLAH, in fact if you read the English writings of many of those confused Muslims, you will always see most of them writing the word Mohammed then after it in brackets (SAWS), i.e. the confused freaks abbreviated the name of Allah to the letter A while writing the name of Mohammed complete, HOW DUMB AND CONFUSED THEY ARE. The Arab writers are as confused as those English writers, when they write Mohammed in Arabic you see after it straight away in very tiny font and the words on top of each other ?????????????????????¢??Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam?????????????????????¢?? in Arabic, you can barely ready the word Allah in it, or they just write the letter ?????????????????????¢??Sad?????????????????????¢?? between brackets, you can see a sample on this web site http://www.tibneen.com/Mohammad.aspx , how clear that those confused Muslims are clearly Mushrikoon and idol worshippers of Mohammed.

you know why those Mushrikoon shorten the words Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam because they mention Mohammed zillions of times in like 15 minutes speech or one page document, they have to bloody shorten it, otherwise when you try to read such writing it may look like that it is the only sentence in there Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, regardless of my joke, the fact remains intact that they also mention the name of Allah zillions of times while when they praise Mohammed, while absolutely not caring to praise Him the slightest, all they care about is to praise Mohammed, let me show you the next verse and see for yourself the striking similarity:


This verse reminds me a program that I watched on QTV by Dr. Tahir ul Qadri

As per him, he meladun-nabi should be celebrated and the justification he gave is very perfect
He started by saying three questions will be asked in the grave

1 who is you GOD
2 what is you religion
3 who is your prophet

He explains this in this way
1st. who is your GOD
The answer of this question will decide whether a person is a believer or not
In other words an atheist or a believer
So if the person answers yes, then he is decided as a believer and the answer is no then he goes hell direct
So assuming he answered ?????????????????????¢??yes?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? then the second question asked ?????????????????????¢??what is your relgion?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
If he answered Islam, then he is cornered if he answers something apart from this ( like jew, or a Christian or hindu ) he goes to hell
Now the cornered muslim is asked the 3rd and important question ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
And only answer of this question takes him to the heaven
If he answer?????????????????????¢??s Mohammed (pbuh) then he goes heaven otherwise to the hell
So he says , you can be a believer as well as a Muslim but if you don?????????????????????¢??t know the name of your prophet then you go to hell
So the third and most important question is ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The deciding question, you cannot go to heaven even if you are a believer or a Muslim
So in order to remember his name, we should celebrate festivals like meladdun-nabi
I don?????????????????????¢??t think he is wrong in his statement as far as I believe that I will be asked this three question
So where is the mistake in his statement , why people are against meladdun nabi
See, only celebrating meladdun nabi will take you to heaven , lol
and he conveniently omitted even hadiths in his justification
Quote:
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[The Quran ; 4:64]

وما ارسلنا من رسول الا ليطاع باذن الله ولو انهم اذ ظلموا انفسهم جاؤوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما

-> See: And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , see, even Mohammed was following and obeying the message of Ibrahim, therefore if we do the same, then we are followers and obedient to the commands of Allah.

In the following verse, we read that those unjust people when they face the music of death, they will ask Allah to delay their death so they follow the MESSENGERS:


This is a very important verse
Particularly,

...., come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.

People who go to draaga (holy shrines) give this ayah as their justification

And they say , Mohammed (pbuh) is still alive and so if we ask him for forgiveness and if he ask forgiveness for us then Allah subhanawatala will forgive our sins and this is can generalized for holy people also cos those people don?????????????????????¢??t die so can be our mediators

But there are people who deny this

Good

Their statement is , this was regarding those people who were with prophet and cannot be generalized till now and being a human prophet was dead and so this verse is for those people who lived those days

Good , I am happy and they are correct and they give proof from quran also

Good

But

If you ask the same people about a verse few verses before, that is

04.059
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

They have a different answer

Why partiality?
Why I should think even this verse was regarding the context as same as verse 4-64


Quote:
Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding.
[The Quran ; 39:18]

الذين يستمعون القول فيتبعون احسنه اولئك الذين هداهم الله واولئك هم اولوا الالباب

-> See: Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; , certainly all these man made books of hadith are the sayings of all these people, it can not be the saying of Allah, therefore according to 39:18, the believers in Allah are permitted to reject many of these hadith sayings that can not be the best of sayings, how the following can be the best of saying:

1- The allegation that the prophet married Aysha when she was 6 years old, which does not make any sense.
2- The allegation that the prophet used to sleep with all his wives in an hour of a day or an hour of a night while not having a bath in between, which contradict the Quran
3- The allegation to drink camel urine, which does not make any sense
4- The allegation of stoning the adulterers, which contradicts the Quran
5- The allegation of killing the apostates, which contradicts the Quran.
6- The allegation that the prophet used to drink wine, which contradicts the Quran

I can keep listing many of such crap and non sense that are only found in the man made crap books of hadith.

There is only one criteria to be able to judge if any saying is bad, good or best, the criteria is simply to compare all such conjectures with the Quran, if it violates it the slightest then such saying can not be best, nor even good, rather a clear cut bad saying that much be rejected and dismissed in the nearest rubbish bin, yet you see most of those Muslims upholding such non sense as if it is from other divine books next to the book of Allah, would that be a type of SHIRK? I say it has to be if you read the following verse:

Again,
If we compare this verse and the verses like this that you have posted

Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?
[The Quran ; 6:50]

We can come to the conclusion, if quran does not authorize hadith then following that hadith is definitely a shirk

Quote:
And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, indeed the unbelievers are your obvious enemy.
[The Quran ; 4:101]

واذا ضربتم في الارض فليس عليكم جناح ان تقصروا من الصلاة ان خفتم ان يفتنكم الذين كفروا ان الكافرين كانوا لكم عدوا مبينا

-> See how clear the reason to shorten the prayer as stated by Allah: And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, i.e. IF ONLY THE UNBELIEVERS IN SUCH LAND MAY CAUSE DISCORD TO US WHEN THEY SEE US PRAYING, it has absolutely nothing to do with distances, rather the fear that the unbelievers in such land where we travelled will try to cause discord to you, it can be even in next town 5 Km away, and certainly if I travel 1000 km to a land where its people will not cause discord to me when they see me praying, then there is absolutely no shortening in my prayer.

The above example proves the stupidity and ignorance of most Muslims, you know why they are so stupid and ignorant when it comes to the religion, because they are blindly following what their parents taught them, fine accept what your parent teach you, but as long as it does not contradict or manipulate what Allah has commanded regarding the same matter, now if you do and take such non sense of a reason to shorten the prayer, then I am sorry to tell you that 42:21 must apply to you, because YOU FOLLOWED WHAT THESE PEOPLE PRESCRIBED IN THE RELIGION THAT ALLAH NEVER SANCTIONED, and in this case of shortening the prayer, Allah even sanctioned something else that is totally ignored by all those Muslims who shorten their prayer, I am telling you, these people must be Mushrikoon along their belief. It cannot get more obvious for Allah sake.



This is real beauty and I can say you are at your best

with regards

Mushtaq
- Sun 01 Mar, 2009 1:01 am
Post subject:
Quote:
And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone.
[The Quran ; 72:18]
وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا


parvez_mushtaq wrote:
This verse reminds me a program that I watched on QTV by Dr. Tahir ul Qadri

As per him, he meladun-nabi should be celebrated and the justification he gave is very perfect
He started by saying three questions will be asked in the grave

1 who is you GOD
2 what is you religion
3 who is your prophet

He explains this in this way
1st. who is your GOD
The answer of this question will decide whether a person is a believer or not

In other words an atheist or a believer
So if the person answers yes, then he is decided as a believer and the answer is no then he goes hell direct

So assuming he answered ?????????????????????¢??yes?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? then the second question asked ?????????????????????¢??what is your relgion?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
If he answered Islam, then he is cornered if he answers something apart from this ( like jew, or a Christian or hindu ) he goes to hell

Now the cornered muslim is asked the 3rd and important question ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
And only answer of this question takes him to the heaven

If he answer?????????????????????¢??s Mohammed (pbuh) then he goes heaven otherwise to the hell
So he says , you can be a believer as well as a Muslim but if you don?????????????????????¢??t know the name of your prophet then you go to hell

So the third and most important question is ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????

The deciding question, you cannot go to heaven even if you are a believer or a Muslim

So in order to remember his name, we should celebrate festivals like meladdun-nabi

I don?????????????????????¢??t think he is wrong in his statement as far as I believe that I will be asked this three question
So where is the mistake in his statement , why people are against meladdun nabi
See, only celebrating meladdun nabi will take you to heaven , lol
and he conveniently omitted even hadiths in his justification


Salam bother

I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you

Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent

Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others

Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.

The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge.

I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say?

Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less

However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children.

Take care
- Mon 02 Mar, 2009 9:03 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
Salam bother

I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you


take your time brother

Quote:
Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent

Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others


well , i dont think they are correct in this
because , quran clearly tells barzakh is unseen and its secret belongs to ALLAH alone
all other are wild guesses

Quote:
Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.

The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge.

I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say?

he had already done that
he simply said , only answering the third question will take a MUSLIM to jannah
which means even a he be a believer if he does not answer the third question then he goes to hell


Quote:
Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less

However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children.

Take care


celebrating own birthday is one thing and celebrating prophet's birthday is other
non of his companions celebrated it
in fact do they precisely know the date of birth of prophet as we know our birth day
is this equivalent to Christmas
are they competing with Christmas and krishna jayanthi

uh what ever


jazak ALLAH

Mushtaq
- Fri 13 Mar, 2009 8:16 pm
Post subject: FFI & the Savage/Primitive Woman
Salaams, Ahmed

I read this from Cassie on FFI:

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1399

Quote:

Re: Good Bye To All Friends & Foes

Postby Cassie ????????????????????????????» Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:03 am

I suspect some of you Muslims reject the hadiths because they show just how horrible Muhammad was. Hence, you 'retreat' to become quran-only, thinking that it makes Islam less of a target of ridicule. However, you could not be more wrong - the Quran is horrible because it was created by a horrible person. The primitivity and savagery shows through. What sort of man would enslave little children and force slaves to have sex? What sort of evil person would take booty and spread 'terror' throughout the land? The Quran is an evil-inspired piece of work and it shows, Muslim. It really shows.

Being a Quran-only Muslim doesn't make you a good person. You're still following a despicable savage theology, created by a despicable savage person.


I have totally stopped writing at FFI for the simple reason that I will be very busy and also there is not a single Jesus freak or an ex-Muslim of any calibre. Most of the gang has the same calibre as that of Ali Sina.

Could you please ask this savage, primitive and despicable person, who litters the band wave with the repetitive junk and stuff, to come and write freely at the site which I have created for all polemicists?
She looks like an ex-Muslim from Afghanistan. Roflmao!

www.faithfreedom.org.uk

What an evil-inspired woman! looks like the biblical Jesus would need to drive out the demon into ten thousand pigs. lol!

Please do this if you can.

Thanks, mate

Salaams
Baig M Z
- Fri 13 Mar, 2009 8:34 pm
Post subject:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
Quote:
Salam bother

I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you


take your time brother

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Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent

Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others


well , i dont think they are correct in this
because , quran clearly tells barzakh is unseen and its secret belongs to ALLAH alone
all other are wild guesses

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Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.

The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge.

I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say?

he had already done that
he simply said , only answering the third question will take a MUSLIM to jannah
which means even a he be a believer if he does not answer the third question then he goes to hell


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Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less

However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children.

Take care


celebrating own birthday is one thing and celebrating prophet's birthday is other
non of his companions celebrated it
in fact do they precisely know the date of birth of prophet as we know our birth day
is this equivalent to Christmas
are they competing with Christmas and krishna jayanthi

uh what ever


jazak ALLAH

Mushtaq


You have some very valid points mate, and I tend to agree with you especially with the birth issue

Cheers
- Tue 17 Mar, 2009 6:54 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
You have some very valid points mate, and I tend to agree with you especially with the birth issue

Cheers

salam brother ahmed

yesterday night at 11P.M IST , i watched the program of Dr.Tahir and the first person who came to mind to talk about this program is you , brother ahmed

as you know
Islamic methodology of solving a problem is by understanding the illat and hikmat of a quranic ayah or a hadith
For example , the ruling regarding making smoking haram is from the
he allows them as lawful At Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al Khabaa?????????????????????¢??ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods)?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
[al-A?????????????????????¢??raaf 7:157]
As in the fatwa
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/105314
similarly , the fatwa regarding melawd-un-nabi is in the fatwa
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/70317
Similar methodology is adopted
This is the presentation of the rejecters of meelawd-un-nabi

Now lets see the argument of those who favours the celebration of meelawd-un-nabi
that is of Dr.Thahir's argument
I think he got a valid point in his argument because even he is proving by same methodology
He started (or I watched his program from this point) with Monday
As per this hadith

The Book of Fasting (Kitab Al-Sawm)
Muslim :: Book 6 : Hadith 2606
Abu Qatada Ansari (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Massenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about fasting on Monday, whereupon he said: It is (the day) when I was born and revelation was sent down to me.

Funerals (Al-Janaa'iz)
Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 469
Narrated Hisham's father:
Aisha said, "I went to Abu Bakr (during his fatal illness) and he asked me, 'In how many garments was the Prophet shrouded?' She replied, 'In three Sahuliya pieces of white cloth of cotton, and there was neither a shirt nor a turban among them.' Abu Bakr further asked her, 'On which day did the Prophet die?' She replied, 'He died on Monday.' He asked, 'What is today?' She replied, 'Today is Monday.' He added, 'I hope I shall die sometime between this morning and tonight.' Then he looked at a garment that he was wearing during his illness and it had some stains of saffron. Then he said, 'Wash this garment of mine and add two more garments and shroud me in them.' I said, 'This is worn out.' He said, 'A living person has more right to wear new clothes than a dead one; the shroud is only for the body's pus.' He did not die till it was the night of Tuesday and was buried before the morning."

So it is very clear that prophet Mohammed (sAw) was born on Monday and he fasted every Monday making fasting on Monday as a sunnah
As per dr.Tahir, Monday was very auspicious in the case of our prophet as Friday in the case of Adam aslissalam even he started hijr on Monday and entered medina on Monday
And as token of kind gesture, even he fasted on Monday
So, when prophet himself fasted on Monday because he born on Monday it was a type of celebration so when celebrated then why we should not celebrate

Valid point !

Next, he explains further celebrations which prophet himself ordained
For example, he quoted the following hadiths

Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 562
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
The people landed at the land of Thamud called Al-Hijr along with Allah's Apostle and they took water from its well for drinking and kneading the dough with it as well. (When Allah's Apostle heard about it) he ordered them to pour out the water they had taken from its wells and feed the camels with the dough, and ordered them to take water from the well whence the she-camel (of Prophet Salih) used to drink.

Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 561
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
When Allah's Apostle landed at Al-Hijr during the Ghazwa of Tabuk, he ordered his companions not to drink water from its well or reserve water from it. They said, "We have already kneaded the dough with its water. and also filled our bags with its water.'' On that, the Prophet ordered them to throw away the dough and pour out the water.

Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 563
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
When the Prophet passed by (a place called) Al Hijr, he said, "Do not enter the house of those who were unjust to themselves, unless (you enter) weeping, lest you should suffer the same punishment as was inflicted upon them." After that he covered his face with his sheet cloth while he was on the camel-saddle.

Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 564
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "Do not enter the ruined dwellings of those who were unjust to themselves unless (you enter) weeping, lest you should suffer the same punishment as was inflicted upon them."
Note that prophet himself made his then followers to drink from the pond which sahil alaissalaam?????????????????????¢??s she camel drank

He further pointed out that the water after thousands of year must have been changed but he(prophet) maintained the tradition of salih alassalaam?????????????????????¢??s intact
If prophet himself celebrated that tradition even after thousands of year then why should not we celebrate our prophet?????????????????????¢??s birthday which is just 1400 years old?

Valid point!

Then he went explaining the difference between the rocks
The rock in the toilet is not the rock in the kaba (how illogical, see his lunatic comparison, na auadubilla) and about the Arabic alphabets
If you write a letter in Arabic then it has no values but the same alphabets if written as quranic verses then it status is regarded high
I don?????????????????????¢??t want to quote all the nonsense he compared just a glimpse of it
So what is harm in celebrating the birthday of a man whose name will take you to jannah

Again a valid point!

Finally he concludes
Prophet used to be happy by seeing children wearing new cloths during marriages so celebrating melawd-un-nabi by wearing new cloths eating good food and giving charity will make him happy. If prophet is happy ALLAH is happy
(Don?????????????????????¢??t forget that as per him prophet is still alive)
Pl tell me where he is wrong, see he has perfectly used Islamic methodology in his talk
He derived the illat and hikmat of the hadiths perfectly as in the same way we refute meelaw-un-nabi

with regards


Mushtaq
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