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Class Discussion - Was the prophet ordered to kill or to fight?
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:01 pm
Post subject: Was the prophet ordered to kill or to fight?
Salam all

This is a thread rasied by somone on FFI:

shuaib_iskander of FFI said:

I wanted to discuss a linguistic point in Hadith #8 of An-Nawawi: "I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but allah and that muhammad is the messenger of allah and until..."

In my poorly transliterated Arabic: "Oomirtu an ooqtila an-nasa yash'hadoo an la ilaha il allah mohammad ar-rasool allahi wa yooqimoo..."

In this hadith (and in the quran) the Arabic q-t-l is translated as 'to fight', whereas I believed it was the verb 'to kill.' What is the difference between h-r-b or 'war' and q-t-l 'to kill?

Are there any native arabic speakers who can enlighten me here?

peace

S
---------------------------

Here is the first FFI goon replying to him:

Haji Murad of FFI said:

Hi Shoaib,

There isn't much difference since the objective is to kill another human being. It is what happens in war too. In English it would be like saying "I have determined to slice those bastards up until none remains"
Undertone is same. Annihilation. Qtl or Hrb both denotes kill.

Cheers
Haji Murad
------------------------


Here is my reply to both:

Ahmed said:

shuaib_iskander wrote:
I wanted to discuss a linguistic point in Hadith #8 of An-Nawawi: "I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but allah and that muhammad is the messenger of allah and until..."

In my poorly transliterated Arabic: "Oomirtu an ooqtila an-nasa yash'hadoo an la ilaha il allah mohammad ar-rasool allahi wa yooqimoo..."

In this hadith (and in the quran) the Arabic q-t-l is translated as 'to fight', whereas I believed it was the verb 'to kill.' What is the difference between h-r-b or 'war' and q-t-l 'to kill?

Are there any native arabic speakers who can enlighten me here?

peace

S


Look pal

there is two words that you are confused between then

Aqtul, i.e. I kill

Auqatul i.e. I fight

look again in the hearsay hadith you posted and the word used is the second, i.e. to FIGHT

-----------

Haji Murad wrote:
shuaib_iskander wrote:
I wanted to discuss a linguistic point in Hadith #8 of An-Nawawi: "I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but allah and that muhammad is the messenger of allah and until..."

In my poorly transliterated Arabic: "Oomirtu an ooqtila an-nasa yash'hadoo an la ilaha il allah mohammad ar-rasool allahi wa yooqimoo..."

In this hadith (and in the quran) the Arabic q-t-l is translated as 'to fight', whereas I believed it was the verb 'to kill.' What is the difference between h-r-b or 'war' and q-t-l 'to kill?

Are there any native arabic speakers who can enlighten me here?

peace

S


Hi Shoaib,

There isn't much difference since the objective is to kill another human being. It is what happens in war too. In English it would be like saying "I have determined to slice those bastards up until none remains"
Undertone is same. Annihilation. Qtl or Hrb both denotes kill.

Cheers
Haji Murad



Hahaha, such a clear cut ignorant you are
--------------------------

The person who asked the question replied as follow:

shuaib_iskander off FFI said:

Wow Ahmed!

Thanks for the free lesson in Arabic language, you answered my question perfectly and revealed the truth regarding mohammed and the quran in just one easy lesson.

What is lesson #2 composed of?

With regards,


S
-------------------------
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:17 pm
Post subject:
shuaib_iskander wrote:
Wow Ahmed!

Thanks for the free lesson in Arabic language, you answered my question perfectly and revealed the truth regarding mohammed and the quran in just one easy lesson.

What is lesson #2 composed of?

With regards,


S


Great, here is lesson # 2 and it should tell you that mastering the Arabic language is not for the faint hearted, in fact even many Arabic speakers don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t know all these variations and their use, don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t ever think that I got it from a book, rather all from my head, this is because I know the Arabic grammar A to Z

I will give you all the variations for the two words Qtl & Qatl

1) The root:

A) ق ت ل , Q T L, three letters root to imply killing
B) ق ا ت ل Q A T L, 4 letters root to imply fighting

2) The past tense (verb):

A) قتل , pronounced Qatala, He killed Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
B) قتلت , pronounced Qatalat, She killed Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminie - singular
C) قتلا , pronounced Qatala, Both killed Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine & feminine - dual
D) قتلوا , pronounced Qatalu, They killed Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - plural
E) قتلن , pronounced Qatalna, They killed Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - plural

A) قاتل , pronounced Qaatala, He fought Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
B) قاتلت , pronounced Qaatalat, She fought Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminie - singular
C) قاتلا , pronounced Qaatala, Both fought Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine & feminine - dual
D) قاتلوا , pronounced Qaatalu, They fought Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - plural
E) قاتلن , pronounced Qaatalna, They fought Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - plural

3) The present tense (verb):

A) يقتل , pronounced Yaqtil, He kills Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
B) تقتل , pronounced Taqtil, She kills Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminie - singular
C) يقتلا , pronounced Yaqtila, Both kill Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - dual
D) تقتلا , pronounced Taqtila, Both kill Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - dual
E) يقتلوا , pronounced Yaqtilu, They kill Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - plural
F) يقتلن , pronounced Yaqtilna, They kill Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - plural

A) يقاتل , pronounced Yuqatil, He fights Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
B) قاتل , pronounced Tuqatil, She fights Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminie - singular
C) يقاتلا , pronounced Yuqatila, Both fight Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - dual
D) تقاتلا , pronounced Tuqatila, Both fight Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - dual
E) يقاتلوا , pronounced Yaqatilu, They fight Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - plural
F) يقاتلن , pronounced Yaqatilna, They fight Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - plural
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:17 pm
Post subject:
4) The nouns:

A) قتل , pronounced Qatl, Murder
B) قاتل , pronounced Qatil, Murderer Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
C) قاتلة , pronounced Qatilah, Murderer Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - singular
D) قاتلون , pronounced Qatiloon, Murderers Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural
E) قاتلين , pronounced Qatileen, Murderers Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural
F) قاتلات , pronounced Qatilat, Murderers Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - dual & plural
G) قتيل , pronounced Qateel, The one who is Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
H) قتيلة , pronounced Qateelah , The one who is Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - singular
I) مقتول , pronounced Maqtul, The one who is Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
J) مقتولة , pronounced Maqtulah, The one who is Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - singular
K) مقتولون , pronounced Maqtuloon, Those who are Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural
L) مقتولين , pronounced Maqtuleen, Those who are Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural
M) مقتولات , pronounced Maqtulat, Those who are Murdered Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural

A) قتال , pronounced Qital, Fight
B) مقاتلة , pronounced Muqatalah, Fight
C) مقاتل , pronounced Muqatil, Fighter Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine - singular
D) مقاتلة , pronounced Muqatilah , Fighter Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - singular
E) مقاتلون , pronounced Muqatiloon, Fighters Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural
F) مقاتلين , pronounced Muqatileen , Fighters Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? masculine Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? dual & plural
G) مقاتلات , pronounced Muqatilat , Fighters Ã??????Ã?????Ã????Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? feminine - dual & plural


5) Additional variations:

A) اقتل , pronounced Aqtil, I kill direct speech by a singular (masculine and feminine)
B) نقتل , pronounced Naqtil, We kill direct speech by dual or plural (masculine and feminine)
C) اقتل , pronounced Iqtil, You kill direct order to a singular masculine
D) اقتلي , pronounced Iqtili, You kill direct order to a singular feminine
E) اقتلوا , pronounced Iqtilu, You kill direct order to a plural masculine or feminine
F) مقتل , pronounced Maqtal, the Killing applies for all

A) اقاتل , pronounced Auqatil, I fight direct speech by a singular (masculine and feminine)
B) نقاتل , pronounced Naqtil, We fight direct speech by dual or plural (masculine and feminine)
C) قاتل , pronounced Qatil, You fight direct order to a singular masculine
D) قاتلى , pronounced Qatili, You fight direct order to a singular feminine
E) قاتلوا , pronounced Qatilu, You fight direct order to a dual or plural masculine or feminine


I will stand corrected if I posted anything wrong in the above

Salam
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:22 pm
Post subject:
Here is one of the goons rplying to my lesson # 2 above:

Anti-Jihad wrote:
As usual, grow up Ahmed, you are so fvckin predictable :p .


AhmedBahgat wrote:
do you have anything to say regarding my Arabic lessons?
if yes, please take the stand, if no, please piss off or dismiss yourself, you choose


Haji Murad of FFI said:

Ahmed,



Class was wonderful, but I am not interested. It is offered in here too free. But I never bothered. I think you with your Arabic lessons will bore our readers to death, hence don't forget there is a PM button offered. It is not for free lunch.

Have a level-headed day,

Haji Murad
-----------------------


Ahmed just dismissed H M in the rubbish bin labelled, Ignorant beyond repairs
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:50 pm
Post subject:
Hello Ahmed,

What is the point in posting your idiotic responses from another forum ?

You keep reinforcing my earlier comment, that this site is by you for you.

Hahahahaha
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 12:54 pm
Post subject:
Kafir-Harbi wrote:
Hello Ahmed,

What is the point in posting your idiotic responses from another forum ?

You keep reinforcing my earlier comment, that this site is by you for you.

Hahahahaha


Hello kafir

Of course this site is by me and for me, however and as I told you on FFI, I allow dear friends and others to use it within the rules

for copying my replies on FFI or any other web site, in here, this is one of the main objective of FI, to be the main source for ME to refer to whenever I need to, also it is a protection against those sites which may go bust or sites which may lose their DB or sites which delete my comments

do you get it now?
- Sat 19 Apr, 2008 1:05 pm
Post subject:
Hey brothers and sisters,

Look how the lowest of the lows expose themselves

see what the guy who raised the question replied with, I included my replies to his arse:

shuaib_iskander wrote:
Ahmed,

Thank you for explaining the 54 descriptive methods of killing in arabic islam.



shuaib

you sound confused, the 54 words were not only about killing but killing and fighting, that is your first mishap

your second mishap is simply, those descreptive meanings are not explicit to the ARABIC ISALM, rather the ARABIC LANGUAGE


can you please concede your lack of IQ?, cheers


shuaib_iskander wrote:
Does one need to utter any special quranic verses before executing a kafir, or will a simple bismillah suffice?


Dismissed


shuaib_iskander wrote:
Also, is one weapon of execution favored over another; a Chinese communist AK47 or an American capitalist M16... or an Israeli Uzi ?


Also, dismissed

shuaib_iskander wrote:
Where does one obtain such weapons if I may ask?

peace

S.


Finaly dismissed

peace up your arse

no peace to you on my side

piss off you jerk
- Tue 06 May, 2008 9:22 am
Post subject:
Thanks a LOT for that post bro. Alot of Arabic Christians give me crap about how the word "fight" in the Quran was wrongly translated, but the word actually meant kill.

Now I know how deceiving those losers are.

Bro, what does Yunzifoon mean anyway? Alot of Arabic Christians tell me it means "bleeding", so therefore Surah 56:19 was talking about "bleeding" boys in Paradise. According to them.
- Tue 06 May, 2008 11:50 am
Post subject:
Here is a website showing the dictionary of the Quran, translating it word for word in detail. I hope you like it:

http://www.abdurrahman.org/arabic/parekh.pdf

Save this PDF file onto your computer and it is great Smile

It helps people alot

Take care
- Tue 06 May, 2008 10:57 pm
Post subject:
IntellectualWarfare1 wrote:
Here is a website showing the dictionary of the Quran, translating it word for word in detail. I hope you like it:

http://www.abdurrahman.org/arabic/parekh.pdf

Save this PDF file onto your computer and it is great Smile

It helps people alot

Take care



Thanks mate
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