Yeah some mullahs only know how better to confuse people
- Sun 18 Apr, 2010 8:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Divorce in Quran
| zack wrote: |
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Salaam All,
Spent several hours understanding this concept in Quran and the explanation by several translators(FYI - I don't know Arabic much). There are several different opinions and interpretations, don't know which one is correct. In particular, the concept of triple Talaaq. Anyone who knows Arabic...please help, JazakAllah in advance for the help. |
| BMZ wrote: |
| But then, the Mullahs know better. |
| zack wrote: | ||
|
Thanks brother BMZ,
You are right, what if a man utters talaaq thrice?? Whats the right method of divorce?
Yeah some mullahs only know how better to confuse people
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| zack wrote: |
|
Salaam All,
Spent several hours understanding this concept in Quran and the explanation by several translators(FYI - I don't know Arabic much). There are several different opinions and interpretations, don't know which one is correct. In particular, the concept of triple Talaaq. Anyone who knows Arabic...please help, JazakAllah in advance for the help. |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
Salam brother Zack Good to see you again after a while Talaq word only appeared in the Quran in the verses posted by brother BMZ, however I believe that it is also mentioned indirectly in some other verses that I will try to find for you inshallah later today But for now, I may tell you my own understanding to the concept of Talaq as I got it from Quran only: Yes there are 3 times to divorce your wife, if you reached the third time then you cannot reconcile with her until sheproperly marries another man, this restriction is put in place (I believe) to make men think twice before they abuse their power in divorce, knowing in advance that if they do it for the third time, then their ex wife must mary another guy and divorce him before they can reconcile again, Muslims manipulate this restriction by hiring a guy to mary their ex then make him divorce her on the spot, possibly even without seeing her, which I believe is not right and dfies the purpose of the restriction enforced by Allah The confused Muslims also manipulate the 3 times by dicorcing their wife three times at once, i.e. by saying to their wives that they are divorced three times, such abuse clearly violates the Quran because the Quran told us that when a problem happen between a husband and a wife, then a judge should come from her family and another judge should come from his family, then try to resolve the issue, which hardly happend with those seeking divorce, I believe that for the right count of three divorces, it should happen as follow: 1- First Divorce 2- First Reconcilation 3- Second Divorce 4- Second Reconcilation 5- Third divorce 6- Third reconcilation cannot happend until she properly marries another man and get divorced from him, and I believe this should be the case with any further divorce after the third reconcilation, i.e. if they divorce for the forth time , then she should marry another man and get divroced from him before the fourth or any subsequent reconcilation. I dont think it will be common to reach this stage, but surely it may happen, however for a husband and a wife to get divorced between them so many times only means one thing, that they should never e husband and wife between themselves. Also do not forget that such law by Allah is not only to protect the wives from abusing divorce by their husbands, but to also protect the children who will certainly get lost and confused seeing their parents doing such childish actions. These laws were put by Allah to discourage divorce but at the same time Allah does not prohibit divorce because there might be a husband and a wife that are totally incompatible Finally for those who want to divorce, Allah has a strong message for them, let's have a look: يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ يَحِلُّ لَكُمْ أَن تَرِثُواْ النِّسَاء كَرْهًا وَلاَ تَعْضُلُوهُنَّ لِتَذْهَبُواْ بِبَعْضِ مَا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ إِلاَّ أَن يَأْتِينَ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ فَإِن كَرِهْتُمُوهُنَّ فَعَسَى أَن تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئًا وَيَجْعَلَ اللّهُ فِيهِ خَيْرًا كَثِيرًا (19) O you who have believed! It is not lawful for you that you inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take some of what you have given them unless they commit an obvious indecency. And live with them in kindness. And if you dislike them, then perhaps you dislike something that Allah makes in it abundant good. [Al Quran ; 4:19] -> See the great message from Allah to the husbands: And live with them in kindness. And if you dislike them, then perhaps you dislike something that Allah makes in it abundant good. The above verse should be an admonition for all those husbands who started to dislike their wives and want to divorce them Salam |
| zack wrote: |
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Thanks brother Ahmed and BMZ, very much appreciate your reply.
Ahmed, the US immigration folks pestered the life out of me, they held my passport for 9 months and when I ask them, they said my case is under processing. After 9 months, I called them and said "Guys I need my passport back now". I have my passport with me now and will find a job elsewhere. Spent a lot of time understanding the whole concept about divorce in Quran, little tough. Here is my final question: If an ignorant Muslim divorces his wife thrice in one shot, will the couple have to wait for 3 months(iddath) or does the divorce takes effect immediately? May Allah guide us always closer to the right path. |
| zack wrote: |
| Thanks brother Ahmed and BMZ, very much appreciate your reply. |
| zack wrote: |
| Ahmed, the US immigration folks pestered the life out of me, they held my passport for 9 months and when I ask them, they said my case is under processing. After 9 months, I called them and said "Guys I need my passport back now". I have my passport with me now and will find a job elsewhere. |
| zack wrote: |
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Spent a lot of time understanding the whole concept about divorce in Quran, little tough. Here is my final question:
If an ignorant Muslim divorces his wife thrice in one shot, will the couple have to wait for 3 months(iddath) or does the divorce takes effect immediately? May Allah guide us always closer to the right path. |
| zack wrote: |
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Thanks brother Ahmed and BMZ,
So that means if someone divorces his wife thrice in one shot, and after a month(or within the time of three periods), they realize that they can reconcile for good, they can revert back without any Nikah. Is that correct? |
| zack wrote: |
| I hate to say that I don't know Arabic, I tried brother and failed miserably. Sometimes due to improper direction and sometimes due to week Imaan I guess. |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| I think you lack confidence and patience, this is what you need to learn anything |
| zack wrote: |
| I think learning Arabic is one of the best method to understand Quran. |
| zack wrote: |
| I know you said we don't need to learn Arabic if we have a very good translation at hand, but, how would anyone validate the authenticity of the translation unless he/she knows Arabic? |
| zack wrote: |
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Take care brother...
May Allah bless you too, may HE guide us all closer to the truth. |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||||||
No worries mate, BMZ and myself have over 100 years of life experience between us
Good to hear mate, and good luck with finding a new job, stick with Allah on a straight path and He will certainly reward you for your good deeds and patience
No man they do not have to wait as BMZ explained that the wait is needed to make sure that she is not pregnant so we dont know who is the father, on the other hand the matter is not only knowing who is the father as with recent sience we can know who is the father, the wait is for a higher wisdom as stated in the Quran, to give a chance for their husband to reconcile after knowing that their divorced wife us pregnant with his child, see this verse: ]وَالْمُطَلَّقَاتُ يَتَرَبَّصْنَ بِأَنفُسِهِنَّ ثَلاَثَةَ قُرُوَءٍ وَلاَ يَحِلُّ لَهُنَّ أَن يَكْتُمْنَ مَا خَلَقَ اللّهُ فِي أَرْحَامِهِنَّ إِن كُنَّ يُؤْمِنَّ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَبُعُولَتُهُنَّ أَحَقُّ بِرَدِّهِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ إِنْ أَرَادُواْ إِصْلاَحًا وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ وَاللّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكُيمٌ (228) And the divorced women should wait for three periods; and it is not lawful for them that they conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the last day. And their husbands have right to take them back in that period if they want reconciliation. And for them (the wives) is similar rights to what is expected of them. And for the men, they have a degree over them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. [Al Quran ; 2:228] -> See: And the divorced women should wait for three periods; and it is not lawful for them that they conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the last day. And their husbands have right to take them back in that period if they want reconciliation. Take care mate |
| The wrote: |
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I have a different take on this, and I believe that a single 'talaq' is sufficient.
Again, I believe that the waiting period is compulsory so that it can be ascertained that she is not carrying a child, and in case she marries another man, her new husband cannot lay a claim against her that she is carrying the previous husband's child, nor can the previous husband lay a claim to a child born after her completion of the term. Likewise, it also safeguards the rights of the previous and new husband respectively. |
| zack wrote: |
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I have one more question brothers -
Can a man divorce her wife and take her back before the iddah period completes, then divorce her second time and take her back before the iddah period completes and again divorce her and take her back before the iddah period more than thrice? I know a case wherein the husband divorced his wife 3 times and took her back each time before the iddah period. Now he is afraid that the relationship is not valid. Can someone please advise? I couldn't find any verse that explicitly said so or I must have missed. |
| Quote: |
| الطَّلَاقُ مَرَّتَانِ فَإِمْسَاكٌ بِمَعْرُوفٍ أَوْ تَسْرِيحٌ بِإِحْسَانٍ |
| Quote: |
| فَإِنْ طَلَّقَهَا فَلَا تَحِلُّ لَهُ مِنْ بَعْدُ |
| The wrote: |
| Hey, buddy, we have different takes on the issue. |
| The wrote: |
| As per my understanding of the Quran your friend's marriage is still valid. |
| The wrote: |
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Sure thing, buddy.
This is the case: took her back each time before the iddah period. We know from the Quran that the woman has to be put away for a term, and upon reaching the term they have to make the decision of reconciliation or separation, in the presence of two witnesses. In this case the term was never reached, so I hold that the marriage is valid. What is your reasoning for stating that the marriage is invalid? |
| The wrote: |
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@ahmedbahgat: I dont think so man, this was, there will be a massive loophole in the laws of Allah concerning divorce.
The husband cannot force her to return to him, so why will she agree on reconciliation a million times? |
| The wrote: |
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Cool, buddy. Can you explain the following a little further:
The Iddah is only there to protect the pregnant wife. |
| The wrote: |
| Tell me, is it compulsory to observe the term? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| If the wife has reached menopause, then Iddah is three months |
| zack wrote: | ||
Salaam brother Ahmed, Don't you think that the women who reached menopause wont get pregnant? Why is the waiting period prescribed for them then? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||||
Hello mate Sorry for the late reply, I was in a business trip for 3 days and just arrived home. I think the answer is in the same verse, I actually forgot a piece of information concerning those women who reach menopause, let me bring the verse in here: وَاللَّائِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِنْ نِسَائِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَاثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ ۚ وَأُولَاتُ الْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَنْ يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلْ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْرًا (4) And those who have despaired of menstruation among your women, if you doubt, then their waiting period is three months, and also for those who do not menstruate (between menstruations). And the pregnant women, their waiting period is until they deliver their burden; and whoever fears Allah He will make for him through his affair easiness. [Al Quran ; 65:4] -> Can you see the piece of information in the same verse concerning women who reached menopause: if you doubt, i.e. only if we doubt that they have reached menopause or not, however if we are sure that they reached menopause, then I believe that there should be no Iddah for them. Possibly at the start of the menopause age, at which we may doubt if they reached it or not. Take care mate |