Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Hello All
Yeh let's get this thread on track again:
drshabeer wrote:
Peace Brothers and sisters..
Well In my opinion People like me who are not very good at understanding the grammer etc of Arabic would Always like to get different Perspectives and Views on the Same Verses.
Salam bro
See man, there is only one way that we can defend ourselves on the JD, simply by telling Allah that this is what He told us literally in the Quran. i.e. those who manipulate the Quran illiterally will have no defence on the JD. it is possible that it will be said to them that they only followed their low desires:
43- Have you seen him who takes his desires for his god? Will you then be a protector over him?
44- Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path. [The Quran ; 25:43-44]
أَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَهَهُ هَوَاهُ أَفَأَنتَ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِ وَكِيلًا (43)
أَمْ تَحْسَبُ أَنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ أَوْ يَعْقِلُونَ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا كَالْأَنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ سَبِيلًا (44)
Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition? [The Quran ; 45:23]
أَفَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَهَهُ هَوَاهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلَى سَمْعِهِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلَى بَصَرِهِ غِشَاوَةً فَمَن يَهْدِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ اللَّهِ أَفَلَا تَذَكَّرُونَ (23)
drshabeer wrote:
So that I can compare and study the different Views by my own Analysis etc..
Well, I guess this is what everyone should do, which is analyse the proposed concepts and comparing it with the existing knowledge that we already have, I have to be honest too that I analysed most of the claims stated by the aloners,, at the start I felt that they have merit but as I continued my analysis o quickly realized that they are a bunch of Muslims who submitted to satan and surely they have gone astray
The aloners confusion with the Quran is evident when you present to them a very string language argument, like when I did with the pig meat or the Sacred House or Fasting the month of Ramadan even when you present to them a logical Quran argument like when I did with Jahannam, or Firon, they still insist on their non sense, this is the clear evidence of their submission to Satan, remember this verse:
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them. [The Quran ; 9:74]
يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللّهِ مَا قَالُواْ وَلَقَدْ قَالُواْ كَلِمَةَ الْكُفْرِ وَكَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِسْلاَمِهِمْ وَهَمُّواْ بِمَا لَمْ يَنَالُواْ وَمَا نَقَمُواْ إِلاَّ أَنْ أَغْنَاهُمُ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَإِن يَتُوبُواْ يَكُ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَإِن يَتَوَلَّوْا يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ (74)
drshabeer wrote:
If the Views are Unilateral without any opposing It would become difficult to verify the Views.. Regards
and also bro, when the account is held it will be impossible to have a defence using the unliteral understandings because simply there might be more than one unliteral understanding (see, each one can be according to the individual low desires) however with the literal Quran, we only have one understanding hence those following the literal Quran will have a merited defence
Salam
Posted:
Fri 10 Nov, 2006 8:27 am
Dre
Status:
Faith: Islam Gender:
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 2
Post subject:
Salam Ahmed,
Basically mate, i dont think you should have to reason your actions. Anyway, all i could see is that they banned you because you were getting on their nerves. Simple as that! If someone doesnt like it tuff luck!!
And really every single point you disputed about their comments - they never wanted to accept (even before you said it) - if they want to say somehting, and expect the reader to believe it then they should of continued to debate the matter with you to show us who is right at the end, but it looks like they were worried their whole concept of islam would be jeopardised. One thing i like about you - is the fact that your willing to take on any argument - and continue it to the end. Really its the loss of any reader out there who didnt find out the conclusion.
Dre
Posted:
Fri 10 Nov, 2006 2:16 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Dre wrote:
Salam Ahmed,
Salam bro
Dre wrote:
Basically mate, i dont think you should have to reason your actions.
With these weirdos you need to explain everything otherwise they manipulate it and use it against you to defame you
Dre wrote:
Anyway, all i could see is that they banned you because you were getting on their nerves. Simple as that! If someone doesnt like it tuff luck!!
Of course I was gettin on their nerves, as they got on my nerves when they kept saying non sense about Allah and his Quran, the difference between me and them though that I didn't cri as they did all the time during my year on FM
Dre wrote:
And really every single point you disputed about their comments - they never wanted to accept (even before you said it)
Of course, and if you pay FM a visit and read my over 3000 comments "if you have time" you will see how they have been refuted and what they do after, they just run and try to defame me
Dre wrote:
- if they want to say somehting, and expect the reader to believe it then they should of continued to debate the matter with you to show us who is right at the end,
It is not really a matter of who is right and who is wrong, there will be no room for mistakes on the JD, anyone who is mistaken will pay severly, it is all about reaching a common understanding to our great religion and its Quran, they don't want that indeed, what they want is to create a deluded concept that can only be valid in Barbie worlds then promot it as if they are the right ones and the rest are wrong, they did exactly as the sunni and other islamic sects did
Dre wrote:
but it looks like they were worried their whole concept of islam would be jeopardised.
Of course, that is why I concluded that they don't want to reach a common understanding regarding the Quran, rather to insist on their manipulations to only serve their low desires
Dre wrote:
One thing i like about you - is the fact that your willing to take on any argument - and continue it to the end.
Bro, this is what a religious debater should be, I'M NOT A RELIGIOUS PREACHER rather a very tough religious debater, and when I say tough I mean that I look at every single letter said by my opponent and try hard to find logical mistakes in it sort of like a lawyer or a prosecuter and I use their tough style of presenting my argument, I'm no faint hearted bro and religious debates are not for the faint hearted, if you read my reply to the first part of the manipulated story named "where was mohammed" by FM webmaster you will know what I mean
Dre wrote:
Really its the loss of any reader out there who didnt find out the conclusion.
Dre
Post subject: Should brother Ahmed leave Free Minds forum - Bring it on
There is nothing wrong in brother Ahmed using strong language.
So does the Koran.
So does the Book of Isaiah.
So did Jesus.
I wish I could do the same. ( May be, I even secretly admire and envy him for this gift.)
He has been gifted such speech by Allah
because his faith is STRONG, and not luke warm like the rest of us.
With faith comes knowledge.
With knowledge comes wisdom.
With wisdom, love, and understanding.
Open your eyes, so that light may enter.
Open your hearts, that faith may enter.
And leave brother Ahmed alone just because he is in conflict with our pride and our half baked knowledge on the Koran.
He has devoted much time to study it. So let us not grudge him credit for it.
As God orders us in the Book of Job:
"Be silent. And Listen."
Yes, dear friends. Listening is also an art which many of us have not cared to acquire.
As the saying goes in India:
He (god) has given us two ears and one tongue so that
we may listen twice as much as we speak."
Go, do likewise.
Love, _________________ Posted By Friend Of Islam, New Delhi
Posted:
Sun 18 Mar, 2007 3:31 am
The Rook
Status: Age: 110 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Posts: 529
Post subject:
Quote:
drshabeer wrote:
Well In my opinion People like me who are not very good at understanding the grammer etc of Arabic would Always like to get different Perspectives and Views on the Same Verses.
If the Views are Unilateral without any opposing It would become difficult to verify the Views.. Regards
# u are absolutely right, brother! however, it's very important to know what one is dealing with; many peepz i see simply fall to propoganda!
for example, non-muslims over the years have tried to disort the quran by claiming that the arabs borrowed words from other languages and distorted the meanings to suit their own agenda! this is simply absurd for v have no reason to believe that if a word is common to arabic and, say, hebrew, then it is the arabic language which has borrowed it from hebrew! further, there is no reason to suppose that a borrowed word should either conform to the meaning in the source language, or be seen as a distortion! there are many peepz who look at the different entries for words in a dictionary and then get pedantic about it; and there are many others who actually fall for these full-baked "regurgitators"!
## to give but 1 example, look at the word "berserk"! if v read in a piece of english literature about somebody who went berserk, v understand the person got all maniacal and frenzied!
...v do not trace its source back to scandinavian dialect or culture, and understand that the person (who went berserk) became a norse warrior! nor do v understand that person to have wrapped himself in bearskin!
...yet u find plenty score non-muslims and wannabes trying to apply such a technique to the text of quran; and u do find some naive peepz in search of a fresh perspective fall pray to their lies!
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