Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Al Masjid Al Haram
tanveermd wrote:
Salaamun alaikum brother AhmedBahgat, all,
Salam brother tanveermd
Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s see what this article by someone else has to say:
Quote:
MEANING OF MASJID:
I hope the author used the Quran to qualify what he says regarding the above simple subject
Quote:
I agree that "masjid" means a place where one performs the sujud,
Wow, end of discussion then because that is what I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m bloody saying all along, but let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s analyse the evidences
Quote:
but that place could be the heart or the mind as well.
Could be, or it certainly is as well?. certainty is the only factor that should refute that masjid means a place to perform sujud, but the author already said:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? I agree that masjid means a place where one performs the sujud????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Then the author said :
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? but that place could be the heart or the mind as well????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
I underlined the key words in the author comments above, clearly the author agrees that :
1) "masjid" means a place where one performs the sujud,
2) that place could be the heart or the mind as well
From 1 & 2 together, we can conclude that the author agrees 100% to the following:
"masjid" means a place where one performs the sujud,
Quote:
The heart and the mind are also a PLACE, and a PLACE does not have to be physical.
Not sure about what the author is saying here, so he agrees that masjid is a place to do sujud in it, then he says the heart and mind are also PLACES that sujud can be performed in them, well I have to say that what will be performed in the heart and mind are the belief in Allah and the other things we are required to believe in, part of that belief is to perform sujud in places where sujud can be performed in it, like a place on the wazn Maffal and is called Masjid
Quote:
In Arabic we hear about "al-masjid Al-Azhar issuing a fatwa". Now it is not a physical building that issued the fatwa but a group of people at an institution who issued the fatwa. Just like we say that the Senate or the Congress decided .......
LOL, a case of desperation by that author, he is looking for any thing to play with and come up with a fine tuned conjecture, well it seems that author lacks common sense, al masjid al azhar is a place and a building, and when the people in charge issue something (exactly as he said and similar to the white house issuing something), LOL, this is so funny, it seems he refuted himself.
Now the senate is sitting in a house called the parliament house or another building dedicated to those members to meet and decide upon something, exactly like masjid al azhar which is also a building
Come on author we don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t need this confusion, bring verses from the Quran, not one or two, we need many, the word Masjid is mentioned over 20 times in the Quran, ok it seems the author is lazy, I will do it for him, and see if it supports his allegation.
Quote:
So masjid is an institution or a place which could be both physical and mental. We have to look at the context of the verses in each case to determine if its usage implies physical or mental.
Really?, so far it seems that Masjid is a physical place only, but doing sujud is the mental/physical thing, how the heck that author mixes the two?, sure he does not speak Arabic, and if he does then may Allah be with him
Quote:
WHY AL-MASJID AL-HARAM CANNOT BE PHYSICAL:
Ok we finished chapter 1 (The meaning of Masjid) and we saw nothing from the Quran, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s move to chapter two and see if the author will get it right this time, now the author moved on to a specific subject which is al masjid al haram, and the author claims that it can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t be physical place, rather mental, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s see:
Quote:
According to the context of 2:144, al-masjid al-haram can only be mental and means the "institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden" which can easily be the mind or the heart.
Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s bring that verse here:
We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.
So the author is using the above verse to prove his allegation that al masjid al haram can not be a physical place to perform sujud in it, however it is very strange that the author dodge all the other verses where al masjid al haram is mentioned and desperately using a verse that can be mutashabih to prove his allegation , it also seems that part of the package from the author is to confuse the hell out of us and mix it with the Qiblah issue.
See, the issue in hand is this:
Is al masjid al haram a physical place to worship Allah in it or not?
That is the question, forget the qiblah matter, that is another one that can be resolved after we resolve this issue of al masjid al haram, the author will never be able to confuse me.
Now let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s look at the other verses where al masjid al haram was mentioned and see if it proves or contradict the allegation above:
They are the ones who denied Revelation and hindered you from the Sacred Mosque and the sacrificial animals, detained from reaching their place of sacrifice. Had there not been believing men and believing women whom ye did not know that ye were trampling down and on whose account a crime would have accrued to you without (your) knowledge, (Allah would have allowed you to force your way, but He held back your hands) that He may admit to His Mercy whom He will. If they had been apart, We should certainly have punished the Unbelievers among them with a grievous Punishment. [The Quran ; 48:25]
هُمُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَصَدُّوكُمْ عَنِ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْهَدْيَ مَعْكُوفًا أَن يَبْلُغَ مَحِلَّهُ وَلَوْلَا رِجَالٌ مُّؤْمِنُونَ وَنِسَاء مُّؤْمِنَاتٌ لَّمْ تَعْلَمُوهُمْ أَن تَطَؤُوهُمْ فَتُصِيبَكُم مِّنْهُم مَّعَرَّةٌ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ لِيُدْخِلَ اللَّهُ فِي رَحْمَتِهِ مَن يَشَاء لَوْ تَزَيَّلُوا لَعَذَّبْنَا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا (25)
-> See, how someone hinders me from my heart and my mind?, a very good question for our knowledgeable author
This is a serious question indeed, because no one can hinder any one from their own hearts and minds, I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m sure the author will come back with some silly examples like the masjid al azhar one, trying desperately to prove his allegation, he will say that yes people may hinder others from the mental status of al masjid al haram to make them unbelievers, well, the quran tells us something else which is the truth, that no one can hinder others hearts and minds:
Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion while his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty. [The Quran ; 16:106]
مَن كَفَرَ بِاللّهِ مِن بَعْدِ إيمَانِهِ إِلاَّ مَنْ أُكْرِهَ وَقَلْبُهُ مُطْمَئِنٌّ بِالإِيمَانِ وَلَكِن مَّن شَرَحَ بِالْكُفْرِ صَدْرًا فَعَلَيْهِمْ غَضَبٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ (106)
-> 16:106 is a mother of all refutes to any future argument that some people may hinder others from the status of masjid al haram, i.e. hinder them from what they want to conclude in their own hearts and minds, see the example given above is someone who is a believer then was put under some sort of compulsion to utter Unbelief, WHILE HIS HEART REMAINED FIRM IN FAITH, i.e. faking disbelief if we are put under compulsion is allowed ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion while his heart remaining firm in Faith????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, clearly no one can force anyone to change what is in the heart and the mind of any person, therefore the author argument is weakened a lot by just the above verse, but let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s continue and see where else masjid al haram is mentioned:
Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Messenger: ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque, if Allah wills, with minds secure, heads shaved, hair cut short, and without fear. For He knew what ye knew not, and He granted, besides this, a speedy victory. [The Quran ; 48:27]
لَقَدْ صَدَقَ اللَّهُ رَسُولَهُ الرُّؤْيَا بِالْحَقِّ لَتَدْخُلُنَّ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ إِن شَاء اللَّهُ آمِنِينَ مُحَلِّقِينَ رُؤُوسَكُمْ وَمُقَصِّرِينَ لَا تَخَافُونَ فَعَلِمَ مَا لَمْ تَعْلَمُوا فَجَعَلَ مِن دُونِ ذَلِكَ فَتْحًا قَرِيبًا (27)
-> Again, verse 48:27 refutes this silly allegation by the author, it clearly tells us that the prophet was shown a vision, and this vision came to pass: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Messenger:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and what was the vision?: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now mister author may say yes it means to enter the heart and mind , LOL, not sure about that really, but if this is true, this means all that period before this vision came to pass the believers were confused including the prophet, why?, because they didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t enter the heart and mind somehow, and again if this means enter the heart and mind ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????not sure how we enter but I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m just trying to understand our author, you know we need a place to enter, and he said the heart and mind are also places????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now, when entering the heart and mind the prophet and his people did this as the vision came to pass: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , with minds secure, heads shaved, hair cut short, and without fear.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the second and third items raised my eye brow, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????heads shaved and hair cut short????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? ??, what is that mister author?. The verse ended by telling us what the vision truly was:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and He granted, besides this, a speedy victory.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see a victory which the history recorded very well, possibly the author will say, yeh it is the victory over evil in our hearts and minds, well then no judgment is required for the believers then, because since the prophet time all believers entered the status of masjid al haram ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????the ultimate status of belief in the author????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s eye????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, Allah has granted this and came to pass about 1400 years ago.
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
As to those who have rejected (Allah), and would keep back (men) from the Way of Allah, and from the Sacred Mosque, which We have made (open) to (all) men - equal is the dweller there and the visitor from the country - and any whose purpose therein is profanity or wrong-doing - them will We cause to taste of a most Grievous Penalty. [The Quran ; 22:25]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَيَصُدُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَالْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ الَّذِي جَعَلْنَاهُ لِلنَّاسِ سَوَاء الْعَاكِفُ فِيهِ وَالْبَادِ وَمَن يُرِدْ فِيهِ بِإِلْحَادٍ بِظُلْمٍ نُذِقْهُ مِنْ عَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ (25)
-> 22:25 is another case that confirms, al masjid al haram is a physical place, see the verse says :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? As to those who have rejected (Allah), and would keep back (men) from the Way of Allah, and from the Sacred Mosque,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now mister author has a lot of explanations to do, if al masjid al haram is the heart and mind being submitted to Allah, which means submitted to the way of Allah, how come it is repeated in here?:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????from the Way of Allah, and from the Sacred Mosque????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, unless they are two different things mister author?
-> Also we read above that Allah made al masjid al haram open: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? which We have made (open) to (all) men - equal is the dweller there and the visitor from the country????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, how my heart and mind will be open for all dwellers and visitors from the country?, another explanation required indeed
-> Now this is funny, the verse is warning humans : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????and any whose purpose therein is profanity or wrong-doing - them will We cause to taste of a most Grievous Penalty.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? so in the author????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s eye, if we enter the status of al masjid al haram then we do any wrong doing, we will be punished severely, that sounds to me a bit sunni when they say if you become a Muslim then disbelieve you must be killed
How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous. [The Quran ; 9:7]
كَيْفَ يَكُونُ لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ عَهْدٌ عِندَ اللّهِ وَعِندَ رَسُولِهِ إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ فَمَا اسْتَقَامُواْ لَكُمْ فَاسْتَقِيمُواْ لَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِينَ (7)
-> Again and again, our author is being refuted by the Quran that he uses himself, now we have a puzzle in here, the verse above is telling us: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, while the word NEAR is clearly indicating a physical place, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s assume it is a mental status as our author is trying hard to convince us, so we can only honour the agreement with the Mushrikoon when we are near that mental status or al masjid al haram, but how we can judge being near that status?, and if we have an agreement with the Mushrikoon and we are not near that status then we can easily break it and not honour it and this is still good with Allah as it sounds from the above verse?
18- The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance.
19- Do ye make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque, equal to (the pious service of) those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and strive with might and main in the cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah: and Allah guides not those who do wrong. [The Quran ; 9:18-19]
إِنَّمَا يَعْمُرُ مَسَاجِدَ اللّهِ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَلَمْ يَخْشَ إِلاَّ اللّهَ فَعَسَى أُوْلَئِكَ أَن يَكُونُواْ مِنَ الْمُهْتَدِينَ (18)
أَجَعَلْتُمْ سِقَايَةَ الْحَاجِّ وَعِمَارَةَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ كَمَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَجَاهَدَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ لاَ يَسْتَوُونَ عِندَ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ (19)
-> Now if al masjid al haram means ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????the status of the mind and heart????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? then mister author has a big problem in hand as the above two verses will make absolutely no sense
Along with the above the following under the author understanding of al masjid al haram, the verse below will add to the confusion he created:
O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. [The Quran ; 9:28]
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَذَا وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ إِن شَاء إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (28)
-> Man, this is the mother of all problems for the author, the verse is telling the believers :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ok mister author which al masjid al haram exactly?, is it their hearts and minds or the believers hearts and minds?. Man, that is a crack of a laugh indeed, how the believers should not let the Mushrikoon approach the Mushrikoon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s status of al masjid al haram?, or should I say how the believers should not let the Mushrikoon approach the believers status of al masjid al haram?, either way it is clear cut case of non sense
Here is another serious problem for mister author:
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).. [The Quran ; 17:1]
سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ البَصِيرُ (1)
-> Can anyone tell me how the prophet status changed or I should say travelled from the status of al masjid al haram to another status called al masjid al aqsa?, unless mister author considers al masjid al haram is a status but al masjid al aqsa is a physical place !!, well, even if it is the case, he still needs a lot of explanation to do, but I can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t see any possible play with 17:1, unless mister author is very clever in deception.
And finally, another problem for mister author:
And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment. [The Quran ; 2:196]
وَأَتِمُّواْ الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلّهِ فَإِنْ أُحْصِرْتُمْ فَمَا اسْتَيْسَرَ مِنَ الْهَدْيِ وَلاَ تَحْلِقُواْ رُؤُوسَكُمْ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ الْهَدْيُ مَحِلَّهُ فَمَن كَانَ مِنكُم مَّرِيضاً أَوْ بِهِ أَذًى مِّن رَّأْسِهِ فَفِدْيَةٌ مِّن صِيَامٍ أَوْ صَدَقَةٍ أَوْ نُسُكٍ فَإِذَا أَمِنتُمْ فَمَن تَمَتَّعَ بِالْعُمْرَةِ إِلَى الْحَجِّ فَمَا اسْتَيْسَرَ مِنَ الْهَدْيِ فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ ثَلاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ فِي الْحَجِّ وَسَبْعَةٍ إِذَا رَجَعْتُمْ تِلْكَ عَشَرَةٌ كَامِلَةٌ ذَلِكَ لِمَن لَّمْ يَكُنْ أَهْلُهُ حَاضِرِي الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ (196)
-> 2:196 is telling us some laws, without going through the laws in details, we read a condition in the verse: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now mister author needs to explain to us how we know that our household are not at the status of al masjid al haram?
Not strangely, Allah is warning us not to listen to those who are trying hard to change our obedience to the order of Allah to turn our faces towards al masjid al haram:
And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so that people shall have no accusation against you, except such of them as are unjust; so do not fear them, and fear Me, that I may complete My favor on you and that you may walk on the right course. [The Quran ; 2:150]
وَمِنْ حَيْثُ خَرَجْتَ فَوَلِّ وَجْهَكَ شَطْرَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَحَيْثُ مَا كُنتُمْ فَوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ شَطْرَهُ لِئَلاَّ يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَيْكُمْ حُجَّةٌ إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنْهُمْ فَلاَ تَخْشَوْهُمْ وَاخْشَوْنِي وَلأُتِمَّ نِعْمَتِي عَلَيْكُمْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ (150)
-> Firstly, why facing the hearts and minds as a status of al masjid al haram will make other people have no accusation on us?:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????so that people shall have no accusation against you,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????. how they know that we entered that status from the first place?, secondly Allah is telling us not to fear those people regarding turning our faces towards al masjid al harm ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? so do not fear them, and fear Me,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. believe Allah in His Quran and not the people who try hard to manipulate the words from their intended places:
Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: "We hear and we disobey"; and "Hear what is not Heard"; and "Ra'ina"; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said: "What hear and we obey"; and "Do hear"; and "Do look at us"; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe. [The Quran ; 4:46]
مِّنَ الَّذِينَ هَادُواْ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ عَن مَّوَاضِعِهِ وَيَقُولُونَ سَمِعْنَا وَعَصَيْنَا وَاسْمَعْ غَيْرَ مُسْمَعٍ وَرَاعِنَا لَيًّا بِأَلْسِنَتِهِمْ وَطَعْنًا فِي الدِّينِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ قَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا وَاسْمَعْ وَانظُرْنَا لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَأَقْوَمَ وَلَكِن لَّعَنَهُمُ اللّهُ بِكُفْرِهِمْ فَلاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً (46)
-> Now don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t take the above verse as specific to the Jews, because ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Lazeena Hadu????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? can also mean the ones who received the guidance, while the exact word for the the Jews is Al Yahood
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One can face this mental "masjid al-haram", "the institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden" WHEREVER one is. If al-masjid al-haram is physical then one CANNOT face it WHEREVER one is.
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2:144 We see the shifting of thy face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you: "You shall set yourself towards masjid al-haram; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the Scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.
What about all the other verses posted above then mister author?
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SCIENTIFIC PROOF:
Ok, we move now from the assumption phase to the scientific phase, fine, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s see how scientific the proofs are:
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Now it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to face a focal point WHEREVER one is.
First of, why the author is translating ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Qiblah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? as Focal Point?, this is weird, the Quran never said it is a focal point, qiblah means direction
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Firstly that assumes that the Earth is flat. However the reality is that the Earth is round. You can face a physical building only until it is in your line of sight. As soon as you get further away from it and it disappears beyond the horizon, you are no longer facing it but facing a point in the sky/space many degrees away from the physical building which could be many miles away depending on one's exact location and the distance from the physical building.
Ok, is this how scientific the author sees it?, well, the Quran never told us to worry about it scientifically, Allah only ordered us to face the direction of al masjid al haram, i.e. every true believer should do it and not worry about the others how they do it, remember to fear Allah not the people regarding the qiblah, this schoolie so called science has nothing to do with the order from Allah to face al masjid al haram, it is not about facing a direction rather obeying the order of Allah:
The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. [The Quran ; 2:142]
سَيَقُولُ السُّفَهَاء مِنَ النَّاسِ مَا وَلاَّهُمْ عَن قِبْلَتِهِمُ الَّتِي كَانُواْ عَلَيْهَا قُل لِّلّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ (142)
-> See, 2:142 is directly telling us that those who really look at the qiblah as a focal point that has changed, are really the fool ones, because Allah is in every direction ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????? To Allah belong both east and West????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. changing the qiblah is nothing but an order from Allah and people should obey without questioning (hear and obey):
51- The answer of the Believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger, in order that He may judge between them, is no other than this: they say, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????We hear and we obey????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢: it is such as these that will attain felicity.
52- It is such as obey Allah and His Messenger, and fear Allah and do right, that will win (in the end),
-> Now who is summoning us to face the direction of al masjid al haram?, it is Allah in His Quran for sure, therefore, the true believers should say : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? We hear and we obey????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Another important point that can not be missed, the author who is promoting this allegation about al masjid al haram that it is a status of the heart and mind under obedience, is this: why Allah changed this status from something to another called al masjid al haram?, would that make sense to a child?
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Secondly, where will one face if one is on a place on Earth directly opposite to the place where the physical building is located ?
Haha, that was funny, thanks for the laugh, as if we will carry devices in our hands to tell us if we meet this criteria, see how the author is the one that is looking at it as a focal point not an order from Allah to be obeyed without questioning?
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Should one face one way or the opposite way then ?
A simple answer is this: either way is fine, and even the wrong way is fine as long as the one who is doing it thought it was the right direction,
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Actually both will be wrong because one will actually be looking at a point in space MANY MILES away from the actual physical building !!
See how the author is the one who wants to look at focusing on a building not really the true believers?
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Thirdly, where will one face if one is in space, for example near MARS ?
LOL, that was a good one, sure the author also have sense of humour, red humour that is, LOL
Wow man, that was one hell of a scientific experience , hold on every one got to have a break and smoke a cigi to recap all the scientific data the author has provided, it was overwhelming amount of science and I need the cigi, sorry
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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PROOF FROM OTHER VERSES:
Hello again folks, I had a nice break indeed, now it seems the author realized that the only evidence that may sway others is the Quran, I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m sure the author should have realized by now that he needs to tackle all the verses where al masjid al haram was mentioned, that is what I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m expecting the least
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2:115 And to God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
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2:142 The foolish from amongst the people will Say: "What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?" Say: "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
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This 2:142 is clear cut proof that the qiblah could not have been physical. If it was physical, it will make no sense for The God to say "to God is the east and the west" in reply to the foolish questioning about the new focal point.
The author is clearly missing the plot here, Allah is sure every where, but the order was not to look into Allah direction because Allah is every where, in fact if the author remembers the verse about changing the qiblah, the prophet was already looking into the Heavens where Allah is also there, but the order was not to look in a direction where Allah is located rather the order was to look in a specific direction that has nothing to do with Allah location because Allah is every where.
I commented on 2:142 earlier.
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2:177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day..........
I can see how hard the author is trying to find verses to play with, the problem with the author is this: Allah never told us to face the direction of the east neither the west nor to Him physically, rather to al masjid al haram, so the above verse does not prove anything regarding his flawed claim.
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All these verses and the above mentioned scientific facts prove that the focal point is not physical but mental.
LOL, the author proved nothing but at least he proved his lack of knowledge with the Arabic Quran, because somehow he is ignoring all the other verses that I posted above where al masjid al haram is mentioned
WHERE IS THE REST OF THE QURAN PROOFS?
See how the author deliberately dodged all the verses where Al Masjid Al haram is mentioned?
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HISTORICAL PROOF:
Now let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s talk Hearsay, sorry I mean History
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Also at the time of revelation of the qur'aan, there is no historical or archeological evidence of the existence of a PHYSICAL BUILDING by the name of "masjid al-haram". That name was given to a physical building many years after the qur'aan was revealed so how could The God be referring to a physical building in the qur'aan when it did not even exist ?
hmmm, the author need to provide strong evidences to support his statement above. Not like I will take for granted what he bloody says.
Well, the author need evidences that this is the case,
Here is some hearsay, sorry I mean history:
Treaty of Hudaybiyya
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Background
The Treaty of Hudaybiyya was signed in 628. In 628 C.E. a group of 1,600 Muslims marched towards Mecca, in an attempt to peacefully perform the pilgrimage. "Then he [Muhammad] marched till he reached al-Hudaybiyya which lies at the limit of the Haram [sacred territory of Mecca] area at a distance of nine miles from Mecca."
The group was prepared with sacrificial animals, as they hoped that the Quraish would honour the Arabian custom of allowing unarmed pilgrims to enter the city. The Quraish, however, intercepted the Muslim party, well outside Mecca. By this time all of Arabia was aware of the military strength of the Muslims. Muhammad, the leader of the Muslims, was also desperate to avoid bloodshed in or near the holiest city of Islam. Therefore the two parties decided to resolve the matter through diplomacy, rather than warfare."Today whatever condition Quraysh make in which they ask me to show kindness to kindred I shall agree to".
The Treaty
The basic outline of the treaty was as follows: "In the name of Allah. These are the conditions of Peace between Muhammad, son of Abdullah and Suhail Ibn 'Amr the envoy of Mecca. There will be no fighting for ten years. Anyone who wishes to join Muhammad and to enter into any agreement with him is free to do so. Anyone who wishes to join the Quraish and to enter into any agreement with them is free to do so. A young man, or one whose father is alive, if he goes to Muhammad without permission from his father or guardian, will be returned to his father or guardian. But if anyone goes to the Quraish, he will not be returned. This year Muhammad will go back without entering Mecca. But next year he and his followers can enter Mecca, spend three days, perform the circuit. During these three days the Quaraish will withdraw to the surrounding hills. When Muhammad and his followers enter into Mecca, they will be unarmed except for sheathed swords which wayfarers in Arabia always have with them."
Controversy
The treaty was quite controversial for many reasons. Originally the treaty referred to Muhammad as the "Messenger of God". The pagan Arabs refused to sign any such document. This, however, was taken out despite great opposition from Muslim scribes. But, perhaps, the greatest objection to those who doubted the wisdom of the pact was directed to the provision that any Quraish member joining the Muslims without the permission of his guardian would have to be returned to Quraish, and that any apostate from Islam would not have to be returned to Medina. Muhammad's opinion in this matter centered on the consideration that the apostate from Islam who seeks the shelter of Quraish is not really worthy of readmission to the Muslim community; that for the convert who wished to join that community but who was not allowed to at present, Allah would soon find an outlet.
After the signing of the treaty, there was still great fury amongst the Muslim side. Muhammad ordered that Muslims perform their sacred rites there and then, and return to Medina. Many Muslims, however, refused to do so. Some openly questioned whether the Prophet's decision to opt for peace was a right one. In the end, the Muhammad's wife, Um-Salamah, solved the matter by asking him to perform the rites, irregardless of his companions' wishes, and leave for Medina.
Aftermath
The Meccans and their allies broke the treaty by attacking the tribe of Khuza'a within a year. The next year the Muslims march on Mecca and the City and take control unopposed.
Islam spread widely and quickly during the two years period. While those who accompanied Muhammad to Hudaybiya counted one thousand and four hundred, those who accompanied him on his conquest of Mecca two years later counted well over ten thousand.
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The mind/heart is a PLACE, so of course it can be the masjid, especially "masjid al-haram" and one can face this "institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden" WHEREVER one is.
Another ignorant unfounded, baseless conjecture, how about all the verses where al masjid al haram was mentioned?, of yeh, they don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t serve his concept
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Hello All
I believe the word ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Masajid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? مساجد????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, was mentioned 6 times and it is the plural of ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Masjid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? مسجد????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s have a look at all locations and see if we can collect any clues for its meaning, I used Shakir translation (note: I kept the word Masajid UNTRANSLATED????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????:
And who is more unjust than he who prevents (men) from the Masajid of Allah that His name should be remembered in them, and strives to ruin them? (As for) these, it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear; they shall meet with disgrace in this world, and they shall have great chastisement in the hereafter. [The Quran ; 2:114]
وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّن مَّنَعَ مَسَاجِدَ اللّهِ أَن يُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ وَسَعَى فِي خَرَابِهَا أُوْلَئِكَ مَا كَانَ لَهُمْ أَن يَدْخُلُوهَا إِلاَّ خَآئِفِينَ لهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا خِزْيٌ وَلَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ (114)
-> We have three clues in here:
1) prevents (men) from the masajid of Allah that His name should be remembered in them????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. it sounds like a place that some wrong doers will try to prevent the name of Allah to be remembered INSIDE THEM
2) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and strives to ruin them? ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????, i.e. those wrong doers will try to ruin these Masajid, which suggests it is a place to be ruined
3) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. those wrong doers shall enter the Masajid in fear, again it suggests that it is a place to be entered
It is made lawful to you to go into your wives on the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you are an apparel for them; Allah knew that you acted unfaithfully to yourselves, so He has turned to you (mercifully) and removed from you (this burden); so now be in contact with them and seek what Allah has ordained for you, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; these are the limits of Allah, so do not go near them. Thus does Allah make clear His communications for men that they may guard (against evil). [The Quran ; 2:187]
أُحِلَّ لَكُمْ لَيْلَةَ الصِّيَامِ الرَّفَثُ إِلَى نِسَآئِكُمْ هُنَّ لِبَاسٌ لَّكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لِبَاسٌ لَّهُنَّ عَلِمَ اللّهُ أَنَّكُمْ كُنتُمْ تَخْتانُونَ أَنفُسَكُمْ فَتَابَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَعَفَا عَنكُمْ فَالآنَ بَاشِرُوهُنَّ وَابْتَغُواْ مَا كَتَبَ اللّهُ لَكُمْ وَكُلُواْ وَاشْرَبُواْ حَتَّى يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكُمُ الْخَيْطُ الأَبْيَضُ مِنَ الْخَيْطِ الأَسْوَدِ مِنَ الْفَجْرِ ثُمَّ أَتِمُّواْ الصِّيَامَ إِلَى الَّليْلِ وَلاَ تُبَاشِرُوهُنَّ وَأَنتُمْ عَاكِفُونَ فِي الْمَسَاجِدِ تِلْكَ حُدُودُ اللّهِ فَلاَ تَقْرَبُوهَا كَذَلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللّهُ آيَاتِهِ لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَّقُونَ (187)
-> We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it
17- The idolaters have no right to visit the Masajid of Allah while bearing witness to unbelief against themselves, these it is whose doings are null, and in the fire shall they abide.
18- Only he shall visit the Masajid of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate and fears none but Allah; so (as for) these, it may be that they are of the followers of the right course.
-> Two clues:
1) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? The idolaters have no right to visit the Masajid of Allah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. it sounds like a place not to be visited by the idolaters
2) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Only he shall visit the Masajid of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, again it sounds like a place to be visited by the believers, I guess the word visit is the wrong translation by Shakir, I believe it should be ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????to develop????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? as this is the closest in meaning to the Arabic word ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? يَعْمُرُ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Yo????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢Ammer????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah. And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and Masajid in which Allah's name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty. [The Quran ; 22:40]
الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِن دِيَارِهِمْ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ إِلَّا أَن يَقُولُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُم بِبَعْضٍ لَّهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَاتٌ وَمَسَاجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا وَلَيَنصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَن يَنصُرُهُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ (40)
-> We have two clues in here:
1) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and Masajid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. it is a sort of erected building that can be pulled down, like cloisters , churches and synagogues exactly, and in these places:
2) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? in which Allah's name is much remembered????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. Allah name should be remembered INSIDE THEM, again sounds like a place to me
And that the Masajid are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah: [The Quran ; 72:18]
وَأَنَّ الْمَسَاجِدَ لِلَّهِ فَلَا تَدْعُوا مَعَ اللَّهِ أَحَدًا (18)
-> Not much of a clue here other than the verse tells us :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? the Masajid are Allah's????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, it sound like they are His properties, possibly some may say this verse means the status of submission is for Allah, but this can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t be because the status of submission was mentioned as follow in the Quran:
And they who pass the night prostrating themselves before their Lord and standing. [The Quran ; 25:64]
وَالَّذِينَ يَبِيتُونَ لِرَبِّهِمْ سُجَّدًا وَقِيَامًا (64)
-> See, to describe the status of prostrating the Arabic word is ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? سُجَّدًا????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Sujjudda????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, another word to describe those who prostrate themselves before Allah is ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? السَّاجِدونَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Sajidoon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, as seen below:
They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers. [The Quran ; 9:112]
التَّائِبُونَ الْعَابِدُونَ الْحَامِدُونَ السَّائِحُونَ الرَّاكِعُونَ السَّاجِدونَ الآمِرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَالنَّاهُونَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَالْحَافِظُونَ لِحُدُودِ اللّهِ وَبَشِّرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (112)
-> The word ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? السَّاجِدونَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Sajidoon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, may be ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? السَّاجِدِينَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Sajideen????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, depending on Al Irab and Tashkil but both means the same as seen below:
He said: O Iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance? [The Quran ; 15:32]
قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا لَكَ أَلاَّ تَكُونَ مَعَ السَّاجِدِينَ (32)
And when Allah ordered us to strive for this status of submission He told us the following:
Therefore celebrate the praise of your Lord, and be of those who make obeisance. [The Quran ; 15:32]
فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ وَكُن مِّنَ السَّاجِدِينَ (98)
Also when the magicians were defeated by Moses we know what they did:
And the magicians were thrown down prostrate; [The Quran ; 26:46]
فَأُلْقِيَ السَّحَرَةُ سَاجِدِينَ (46)
Therefore the status of prostrating is either any of the followings according to the Quran:
1) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? سُجَّدًا????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Sujodda????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
2) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? السَّاجِدونَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Sajidoon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, Note: Al is not compulsory
3) ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? السَّاجِدِينَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Sajideen????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, Note: Al is not compulsory
AND NEVER THE FOLLOWING:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? مَسَاجِدَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, pronounced as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Masajid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, which is the Plural of ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Masjid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? مسجد????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the singular ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Masjid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? appeared about 22 times in the Quran, in all locations it means a place to worship Allah, and in many other locations it was specific to which worshipping place Allah is talking about, I brought in a couple of verses as an example and we will see clearly that it means a place to worship Allah in it:
107- And those who built a Masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before; and they will certainly swear: We did not desire aught but good; and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.
108- Never stand in it; certainly a Masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it; in it are men who love that they should be purified; and Allah loves those who purify themselves. [The Quran ; 9:107-108] وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُواْ مَسْجِدًا ضِرَارًا وَكُفْرًا وَتَفْرِيقًا بَيْنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادًا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ مِن قَبْلُ وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَا إِلاَّ الْحُسْنَى وَاللّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّهُمْ لَكَاذِبُونَ (107)
لاَ تَقُمْ فِيهِ أَبَدًا لَّمَسْجِدٌ أُسِّسَ عَلَى التَّقْوَى مِنْ أَوَّلِ يَوْمٍ أَحَقُّ أَن تَقُومَ فِيهِ فِيهِ رِجَالٌ يُحِبُّونَ أَن يَتَطَهَّرُواْ وَاللّهُ يُحِبُّ الْمُطَّهِّرِينَ (108)
-> Subhana Allah, verse 9:107 is a very Muhkam verse as far as I can see it, it actually tells us about things we see now days, it tells us about the improper use of these places of worshipping Allah : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? those who built a Masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this is a hard core fact that we can see it now days, we can see clearly the word BUILT, i.e. Masjid is something to be built to worship Allah in it, and Allah is warning us not to go to these places of worshipping that are improperly used ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Never stand in it????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, then He is telling us that we should go to the places where :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? certainly a Masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, can you see the word [b]????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????FOUNDED????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, in Arabic ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? أُسِّسَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, actually the foundation of any building is called ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? اساس????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m a Civil Engineer and I can assure you that this is what a foundation of a building means in Arabic, I understand that Allah is using this as a metaphor, as the foundation of a place cannot be really ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????founded on piety????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but the message is clear, that there are many places that are built on real foundation and footings inside the ground to worship Allah but it is actually used to ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, hence Allah is telling us that the real foundation for a place to be built is ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? founded on piety from the very first day????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , and we can clearly find these good places where Allah is truly and honestly worshipped because we will find inside them :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? in it are men who love that they should be purified????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Status: Age: 110 Faith: Islam Gender:
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# that's a very good post bro, and i will hopefully add more comments later! however, i would like to add something right now: though most of the verses are in themselves enough to rubbish the claims that masjid is a state of mind or whatever, 2:187 really buries them for good!
2:187 It is made lawful to you to go into your wives on the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you are an apparel for them; Allah knew that you acted unfaithfully to yourselves, so He has turned to you (mercifully) and removed from you (this burden); so now be in contact with them and seek what Allah has ordained for you, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; these are the limits of Allah, so do not go near them. Thus does Allah make clear His communications for men that they may guard (against evil).
# now then, the abstract almasjid alharam proponents try to argue that it (almasjid alharam) is for "wherever and whenever"!
...however, the verse makes it quite clear to not have contact with the wife while one is in retreat in almasajid! i know the arab conspiracy thingy makes noise about the word translated as "retreat", but even then it is undeniable that contact with wifey has been disallowed while one has retreated/devoted himself to the mosque!
# what v have now is a self-contradiction for them....
...on one hand they claim almasjid alharam is "for whereever and whenever"....on the other hand verse 2:187 makes it clear that intimacy/contact with wife is disallowed during retreat/devotion to almasjid alharam! the only way out for them is to never have contact with their wives....and trust me u dont want me to pass a comment on that! :-S
# how easy it is for the book of god to ridicule their lies! (-:
Posted:
Mon 15 Jan, 2007 12:00 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Indeed mate we will have a lot of fun with those ignornat bunch of kafiroon, we just let the Quran speak, this made up Mecca conspircy they cooked will be the result of their own destruction after many young Muslims see how idiotic they are, it is just a matter of time man, we must tackle all their bits and pieces even if it is Tom and Jerry style and as you know most of their rubbish is nothing but Tom and Jerry jokes, still, it is our duty to expose their lies so the young Muslims be aware of their deception and invitaion to Hell
Status: Age: 110 Faith: Islam Gender:
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# the mecca conspiracy maybe a munafiqun conspiracy bro...but it is not the manipulators who have concocted it!
the likes of crone and cook are probably among the first proponents of the mecca is not mecca theory! they came up with a rubbish work, (attacking all established history, and whining about the unattentive historians who did not question the arab history), which their fellow disbelievers call "scholarly work"! now u know from where many of the munafiqs who manipulate the quran get their inspiration!
Posted:
Mon 15 Jan, 2007 12:38 am
The Rook
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# i mean it is not an (original) idea of the manipulators who propogate the abstract masjid.....that bunch simply lives off the claims of other disbelievers and modifies it a bit here and there! (-:
Posted:
Mon 15 Jan, 2007 12:42 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Hello Brothers and Sisters
On FM there is a few confused Muslims who promote lies about the Qiblah, i debtaed them many times and I believe proved them wrong using the Quran yet they insist to submit to Satan, I will try to find my debates then add them to FI so they don't get burried within their repetitive non sense on FM, you will also notice from this dialogue that how a Muslim like Novle got done by them:
noble wrote:
I am aware and accept most of The author and many of Ayman's views. I have come to realise that the Qibla might be in fact in Jerusalem, and that Prophet Mohammed was born and lived in the vicinity of Jerusalem, which is logical due to all the Bani Israel Prophets mainly coming from there and the Al Qumran community for which Allah devotes a lot reference to in the second chapter of Al Quran.
Peace Bro
Hope you are doing great mate, as you know there is only a few that I will be happy to discuss Quran matters with in public, and you are one of those mates whom I will be happy to do it with, I actually respect your stand however after a bit of time, profiling you, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????just to know you better????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and also to see how quickly your belief will change by reading many of the articles posted on this web site, I came to realize that you rush into conclusions when you read new concepts, I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not saying that you should not look at and investigate new concepts but what I discovered that you really do rush to conclusion about things that to the contrary need care and patience.
For you to accept the author view regarding the Kabba is a clear example of this sort of conclusion you you rush into, I will explain to you why soon, but as an advice from a Muslim to his brother, I really hope that you take your time before rushing into any conclusion, I guess you stated clearly that you are still happy to change your view again regarding the Kabba, which is great, however it sounds to me that you are leaving it to the others to do it for you, then you just follow them, which is not that bad of course but sure it will make you look confused and I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t want this to apply to you dear brother.
This Kabba thingy is going here for ages and I decided months ago to avoid this subject due to many of the silly arguments presented, I actually told all the members of my intention to avoid the subject but I promised them that they will see me one day jumping back into it and I will take the chance seeing you dragged to this confusion to explain a major flaw in the author article:
Firstly the article stresses the importance of Jerusalem to all descendants of Abraham:
Quote:
???????????????? Jerusalem ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? City of God?
In looking to the area surrounding the location where the town of Lot may have once stood, we find ourselves near the historic city of Jerusalem which is claimed by all descendants of the Abrahamic faith to be a site of importance for monotheism.
I tend to agree regarding the importance of Jerusalem, but to use its importance and call it the city of God, is not warranted indeed because Jerusalem was never mentioned in the Quran to start with as well even if it is an important place, it does not have to be the focal point for all Abraham descendants because again this was never mentioned in the Quran in fact the contrary was mentioned as we will see soon.
The article then talked about Mohammad migration to Yatherib, and it stated that Mohammad after migrating kept pointing to Jerusalem as the Qiblah:
Quote:
???????????????? Beca/Jerusalem is still Mohammed's Focal Point.
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The first sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 3:96)
Quote:
Although Mohammed has been evicted, he is still upholding the focal point of the Temple in Jerusalem????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦This would explain why the Sunnis and Shia record until today that the prophet did indeed face Jerusalem for the first part of his stay in Medina (as evidenced by the mosque with two qiblas) and why they still call Jerusalem the ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????1st qibla????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢.
Here is the sequence according to the author so far:
1) Mohammad was living in Jerusalem and was taking Jerusalem as the Qiblah
2) Mohammad was forced to migrate from Jerusalem to Yathrib but he kept taking Jerusalem as the Qiblah for some time
The article then talked about Mohammad changing the Qiblah to another location away from Jerusalem and the article suggested that it was sort of a test to the believers, the article used 2:142 as an evidence that the Qiblah change from Jerusalem to something else has already happened due to the past tense used by those who wondered about the Qiblahchange:
Quote:
???????????????? God Establishes a new Focal Point (Qibla):
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The foolish from amongst the people will Say: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Say: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 2:142)
Quote:
Here is a clear 'turning' away from the existing focal point to newer one.
Quote:
In-fact, this is where traditions and archeology meet with the Scripture as they relate that when the prophet came to Medina, he set the focal point towards the North East (in this case they claim Jerusalem), and that after a period of time he set it in the opposite direction.
One comment regarding the above quotes, the Quran never suggested that the Qiblah was changed 180 degrees from what it was, this is really silly to suggest, the point is, the author suppose to only use the Quran to prove his allegations, traditions and archaeology evidences CAN????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢T BE ACCEPTED because the doubt will always remain that they have been tampered with.
Quote:
What is an interesting point to note is that if we drew a straight line from Medina to Jerusalem (in-line with the original qibla as per the Scripture), and then we extend the same line completely in the opposite direction (in-line with the turning away from the qibla as per the Scripture), we see that the alleged temple of Mecca, contrary to what the Sunnis and Shia claimed, does not come onto this path.
Yeh instead of 180 degrees it is about 160 degrees, big deal
Quote:
As for Mohammed's people...it was a 'test' of sorts:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 2:143)
According to the author, the first Qiblahchange ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????from Jerusalem to another place ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????? was mentioned in 2:142, then 2:143 is telling us why it was changed, then the author concluded that it was a test of some sort which according to 2:143 I totally agree with the author.
The author then talked about the liberation of Jerusalem:
Quote:
???????????????? The Restricted Temple is finally liberated:
After what seems like an impossibility...Mohammed is finally home...The Temple at Baca/Jerusalem is liberated:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????God has fulfilled with truth His messenger's vision: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????You will enter the Restricted Temple, God willing, secure*, with your heads shaven and shortened, having no fear.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Thus, He knew what you did not know, and He has coupled with this a near victory.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 48:27)
Then the author suggested that there was another Qiblah change back to Jerusalem:
Quote:
???????????????? The Focal Point (Qibla) is Shifted Back to Baca/Jerusalem.
It can be hypothesized that the change in qibla away from Jerusalem was one of the largest single contributors to the situation we see today where Muslims do not follow God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s system. This hypothesis would make the most sense especially of the re-shifting of the qibla back to Jerusalem did not take place until close to the end of the prophet????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s life, soon after or during his liberation of Baca/Jerusalem:
Quote:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The foolish from amongst the people will Say: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Say: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 2:142)
Here the author got me confused, he used 2:142 before as an evidence to indicate the first Qiblah change from Jerusalem to another Qiblah, then he is using 2:142 to describe current Muslims who absolutely not aware of re-shifting the Qiblah back to Jerusalem????? Possibly I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t get what the author means but regardless of his understanding we will see later that it will make no difference.
Then he posted 2:143-144 to complete the story he is suggesting:
Quote:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 2:143)
Quote:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????We see the shifting of thy face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Those who have been given the Scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 2:144)
Then the author skipped 2:145 and jumped to 2:150
Quote:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple. And wherever you may be you shall set yourselves towards it; that the people will have no room for debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall not fear them, but fear Me; so that I may complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (The Message 2:150)
Then the author explained:
Quote:
The Muslims today are confused to the above verses in thinking that the shift towards the ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Restricted Temple????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢ was God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s command for Mohammed when he shifted away from Jerusalem (and they assume towards the shrine of Mecca). The problem with this understanding is that in 2:142 the ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????change????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? had already taken place and the people were commenting about it (i.e. 'what made them change from their Qibla?').
See, the author is using the past tense in 2:142 to prove that it was about the first Qiblah change from Jerusalem to another Qiblah as a test to the believers.
Then the author tells us that in 2:144 the new order of the second Qiblah change was given which is back to Jerusalem from wherever it was:
Quote:
While in 2:144 the Prophet is given ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????new????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? instructions to use the focal point of the ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Restricted Temple????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (which cannot be Mecca because the first change of Qibla that was meant to be a ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????test????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? has already happened and thus the people were all facing the focal point opposite Jerusalem).
See above, the author confirms that 2:144 is about re-shifting the Qiblah back to where it suppose to be, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The City of God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the very important city to all descendants of Abraham, this is confirmed again by the author below:
Quote:
???????????????? Previous Structures Preceding the Dome of the Rock;
Since the location of God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s Temple is deemed to be that where the current Dome of the Rock stands (constructed in 687 A.D.), then it should stand that previous structures have existed on this site since the time of Abraham?
Research shows that indeed this site was the location where the Temple of Solomon stood, and, more recently, the Temple of Herod that was standing during the time of Jesus????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢ journey to Jerusalem.
u] Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s recap the author understanding before I represent the major flaw in it:[/u]
1) Mohammad was living in Jerusalem and was taking Jerusalem as the Qiblah
2) Mohammad was forced to migrate from Jerusalem to Yathrib but he kept taking Jerusalem as the Qiblah for sometime 2:142
3) Mohammad then ordered to change the Qiblah from Jerusalem to another location as a test to the believers 2:142-2:143
4) At almost the end of Mohammad mission, he was ordered to set the Qiblah back to Jerusalem where it suppose to be ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The City of God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
What I noticed clearly that the author SKIPPED 2:145 (He never talked about it despite forms of the word Qiblahwas mentioned 3 TIMES, let me bring it here along with 2:144):
144- Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a Qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.
145- And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your Qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their Qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's Qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust. [The Quran ; 2:144-145]
قَدْ نَرَى تَقَلُّبَ وَجْهِكَ فِي السَّمَاء فَلَنُوَلِّيَنَّكَ قِبْلَةً تَرْضَاهَا فَوَلِّ وَجْهَكَ شَطْرَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَحَيْثُ مَا كُنتُمْ فَوَلُّواْ وُجُوِهَكُمْ شَطْرَهُ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ لَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا يَعْمَلُونَ (144)
وَلَئِنْ أَتَيْتَ الَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ بِكُلِّ آيَةٍ مَّا تَبِعُواْ قِبْلَتَكَ وَمَا أَنتَ بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَتَهُمْ وَمَا بَعْضُهُم بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَةَ بَعْضٍ وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعْتَ أَهْوَاءهُم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ إِنَّكَ إِذَاً لَّمِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ (145)
-> As we can see the prophet was not happy with current Qiblah he was pointing to:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a Qiblah which you shall like;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, according to the history, the existing Qiblah that the prophet didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t like was Jerusalem and according to the author of the article it has to be whatever was the new direction that was set as a test when he migrated to Yatherib but not Jerusalem, then came the order to change the Qiblah to Al Masjid Al Haram, a place suppose to be liked by the Prophet: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????? turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now according to the history that change is from Jerusalem to Mecca and according to The author it was from whatever it was pointing back to Jerusalem
-> Here comes the verse the author totally ignored where the form of the word Qiblah is mentioned 3 times: it starts by telling us a surprising reality :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَلَئِنْ أَتَيْتَ الَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ بِكُلِّ آيَةٍ مَّا تَبِعُواْ قِبْلَتَكَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your Qiblah,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, SEE, the people of the book (the Jews and Christians) will never follow the newly assigned Qiblah mentioned in 2:144, how come then it is Jerusalem, if the people of the book suppose to be already using Jerusalem (the city of God) as a Qiblah?,
-> It gets even better, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَمَا أَنتَ بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَتَهُمْ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????nor can you be a follower of their Qiblah,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, SEE, an order from Allah to the prophet NOT TO FOLLOW the Qiblah of the people of the book (The Jews and Christians), their Qiblah is Jerusalem as the author stated, but here is something vital that the author missed: a clear cut order from Allah NOT TO FOLLOW THE QIBLAH OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, and it even gets better : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????وَمَا بَعْضُهُم بِتَابِعٍ قِبْلَةَ بَعْضٍ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????neither are they the followers of each other's Qiblah,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, a clear indication that even the people of the book have different Qiblahs to each other that they should be following, i.e. there is no way that there is one Qiblah for them which suppose to be Jerusalem as the author claimed otherwise Allah will never tell us this :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? neither are they the followers of each other's Qiblah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and finally the confirmation not to follow their Qiblah as they surely would have desired for Mohammad to do:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
What else I can say bro?
One verse refutes pages and pages of a newly unfounded concept, it was an interesting read for me but for the author to skip 2:145 which clearly telling us the following:
1) The people of the book will never follow the newly assigned Qiblah in 2:144 regardless every sign the prophet showed them
2) The prophet was ordered NOT to follow the Qiblah of the people of the book
3) The people of the book have different Qiblahs between them
Is very questionable indeed
Nothing else to say bro other than if anyone interested to refute back, I only take Quran verses as evidences, for me, the possibly corrupt historical/ archaeology evidences are not admissible in my books.
Also you have to be aware that even if I was a bit confused regarding the author understanding of 2:143-2:144, whatever way I understand it, 2:145 clearly refute the article that the Sacred Mosque is in any where but in Jerusalem, because if it was then 2:145 is a clear contradiction in the Quran because, again it tells us the following:
1) The people of the book will never follow the newly assigned Qiblah in 2:144 regardless every sign the prophet showed them
2) The prophet was ordered NOT to follow the Qiblah of the people of the book (Jerusalem)
3) The people of the book have different Qiblahs between them
I.E. our current Qiblah CAN????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢T be in Jerusalem
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