Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Were Abu Lahab and his wife real?
Hello All,
Some aloners lie and say that Abu Lahab and his wife were not real rather a parable told to us by Allah to teach us a lesson, here is one of my take on that subject:
phoenix1 wrote:
peace Ahmed,
Peace mate,
phoenix1 wrote:
i don't really care whether they were real or not.
It is not a matter of caring of being real or not, it is matter of what hard evidences they have from the Quran that Abu Lahab is nothing but a parable
There is only one indirect lesson from the story of Abu Lahab, it is simply:
His wealth and what he earns will not avail him [The Quran ; 111:2]
-> There is no need to dedicate a whole surah for that obvious lesson that was told to us directly many times in the Quran, in fact I have a surprise for those who claim that Abu Lahab story is nothing but a parable to teach us the above and only lesson (111:2) in the whole sura 111.
ALLAH GAVE US A LONG PARABLE SAYING THE EXACT SAME AND INDEED HE TOLD US ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????HERE IS A PARABLE????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? IN ADVANCE":
32: And set forth to them a parable of two men; for one of them We made two gardens of grape vines, and We surrounded them both with palms, and in the midst of them We made cornfields.
33: Both these gardens yielded their fruits, and failed not aught thereof, and We caused a river to gush forth in their midst,
34: And he possessed much wealth; so he said to his companion, while he disputed with him: I have greater wealth than you, and am mightier in followers.
35: And he entered his garden while he was unjust to himself. He said: I do not think that this will ever perish
36: And I do not think the hour will come, and even if I am returned to my Lord I will most certainly find a returning place better than this.
37: His companion said to him while disputing with him: Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust, then from a small seed, then He made you a perfect man?
38: But as for me, He, Allah, is my Lord, and I do not associate anyone with my Lord.
39: And wherefore did you not say when you entered your garden: It is as Allah has pleased, there is no power save in Allah? If you consider me to be inferior to you in wealth and children,
40: Then maybe my Lord will give me what is better than your garden, and send on it a thunderbolt from heaven so that it shall become even ground without plant,
41: Or its waters should sink down into the ground so that you are unable to find it.
42: And his wealth was destroyed; so he began to wring his hands for what he had spent on it, while it lay, having fallen down upon its roofs, and he said: Ah me! would that I had not associated anyone with my Lord.
43: And he had no host to help him besides Allah nor could he defend himself.
44: Here is protection only Allah's, the True One; He is best in (the giving of) reward and best in requiting.
-> What can I say?, well the Quran keeps refuting the ones who are Quran ignorant, this makes great sense of course, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s look again at what I just said in bold:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? the Quran keeps refuting the ones who are Quran ignorant????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, let me walk you through the parable then see if the allegation against sura 111 deserves a slam dunk.
-> Verse 32, clearly Allah is giving us a PARABLE ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And set forth to them a parable of two men????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????; see how clear Allah is?, a parable of two MEN, can you also see how the two men were anonymous in the parable?, one was rich and the other was not: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????for one of them We made two gardens of grape vines, and We surrounded them both with palms, and in the midst of them We made cornfields.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Verse 33, the rich man had a very comfy life:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Both these gardens yielded their fruits, and failed not aught thereof, and We caused a river to gush forth in their midst,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but did the rich man realize that the Rizq (Favours) he had was from Allah?, I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t think so, it seems you can guess what the parable is all about with ease before reading it complete..
-> Verse 34, the rich man was really proud of his wealth and was showing it of ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And he possessed much wealth; so he said to his companion, while he disputed with him: I have greater wealth than you, and am mightier in followers.
-> Verse35, the rich and unjust man thought that these favours will never perish :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And he entered his garden while he was unjust to himself. He said: I do not think that this will ever perish????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Verse 36, the rich man was an unbeliever as the parable is put to us by Allah:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And I do not think the hour will come, and even if I am returned to my Lord I will most certainly find a returning place better than this., I have to say to the rich man, dream on
-> Verse 37, the other man (the poor) said to the rich man :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? His companion said to him while disputing with him: Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust, then from a small seed, then He made you a perfect man? ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????, I guess he was trying to help the rich man to drop his arrogance and ego in order to follow the right path.
-> Verse 38, the parable also told us that the poor man declared his belief in Allah ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????But as for me, He, Allah, is my Lord, and I do not associate anyone with my Lord.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Verse 39, he even advised the rich man in what to say when feeling the joy and pride due to his wealth:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And wherefore did you not say when you entered your garden: It is as Allah has pleased, there is no power save in Allah?[????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????/b], then he told him that despite he has less wealth than him:[b]????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? If you consider me to be inferior to you in wealth and children,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, that Allah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s reward to him may be far better than his:
-> Verse 40, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Then maybe my Lord will give me what is better than your garden,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, then he even CURSED the rich man and asked Allah to remove the wealth from him, exactly as Noah and many other prophets cursed his people????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and send on it a thunderbolt from heaven so that it (the two gardens) shall become even ground without plant,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Verse 41, the curse continued: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Or its waters should sink down into the ground so that you are unable to find it.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Verse 42, and when his wealth was destroyed the rich realized his mistake:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And his wealth was destroyed; so he began to wring his hands for what he had spent on it, while it lay, having fallen down upon its roofs, and he said: Ah me! would that I had not associated anyone with my Lord. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????, he lost all the money he spent on his gardens as well.
-> Verses 43,44: and the final lesson of the parable :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And he had no host to help him besides Allah nor could he defend himself.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Here is protection only Allah's, the True One; He is best in (the giving of) reward and best in requiting.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Now we have a serious problem for those ignornat who promote that Abu Lahab was not a real man but a symbol, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????A Parable????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, they need to consider the following questions:
Why Allah didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t say in sura 111,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Here is a parable????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? as He did in 18:32?, would it be that it is a clear cut guess on their end to say that sura 111 is a parable while Allah clearly didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t say so?
Why Allah called Abu Lahab with name Abu Lahab while in here the two men mentioned in the parable were anonymous?
There was no mention to the wives of the rich man and the poor man in the above parable which is almost identical to the alleged parable in sura 111, why is that?
In the above parable, it was clear that Allah told us that the anonymous rich man was UNBELIEVER, however in sura 111 there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Abu Lahab was an unbeliever neither a bad man in both 111:1 and 111;:2 , so why he was condemned in 111:3?
In 111:4 about his wife, I can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t see anything wrong regarding his wife carrying logs , what is wrong with that for her to be condemned in 111:5, the end of the sura?
There is no question that they were real people who lived during the time of the prophet but for some rookies to come and suggest something else that contradict what is well established through the history is nothing but saying things about Allah that are not true because Allah talked to us directly about those two in sura 111, this is exactly when they say that sura 111 is a metaphor while clearly we see in the Quran that Allah always tells us ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Here is a metaphor????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, their fatal mistake ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????saying that Allah means a parable with sura 111????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? is warned against in the Quran, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s look at the following verses:
74- Invent not similitudes for Allah: for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
75- Allah sets forth a parable: (consider) a slave, the property of another, (who) has no power over anything, and one whom We have granted from Ourselves a goodly sustenance so he spends from it secretly and openly; are the two alike? (All) praise is due to Allah! Nay, most of them do not know.
76- And Allah sets forth a parable of two men; one of them is dumb, not able to do anything, and he is a burden to his master; wherever he sends him, he brings no good; can he be held equal with him who enjoins what is just, and he (himself) is on the right path? [The Quran ; 16:74-76]
???????????????????????????????????? فَلاَ تَضْرِبُواْ لِلّهِ الأَمْثَالَ إِنَّ اللّهَ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ (74)
???????????????????????????????????? ضَرَبَ اللّهُ مَثَلاً عَبْدًا مَّمْلُوكًا لاَّ يَقْدِرُ عَلَى شَيْءٍ وَمَن رَّزَقْنَاهُ مِنَّا رِزْقًا حَسَنًا فَهُوَ يُنفِقُ مِنْهُ سِرًّا وَجَهْرًا هَلْ يَسْتَوُونَ الْحَمْدُ لِلّهِ بَلْ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ (75)
???????????????????????????????????? وَضَرَبَ اللّهُ مَثَلاً رَّجُلَيْنِ أَحَدُهُمَا أَبْكَمُ لاَ يَقْدِرُ عَلَىَ شَيْءٍ وَهُوَ كَلٌّ عَلَى مَوْلاهُ أَيْنَمَا يُوَجِّههُّ لاَ يَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي هُوَ وَمَن يَأْمُرُ بِالْعَدْلِ وَهُوَ عَلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ (76)
-> Clear from the 16:74 that Allah is warning us from: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Invent not similitudes for Allah: for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this is clear that Allah is telling us not to invent parables and associated to Him, some may say that the warning is against making parables about Allah Himself, I say, sorry it can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t be because He already told us that THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM, and the warning in 16:74 has to be against associating invented parables to Him, because in the very next verse 16:75, He gave us a parable: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Allah sets forth a parable: (consider) a slave????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and again in 16:76 Allah sets forth another parable :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And Allah sets forth a parable of two men;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see, how the slave and the two men in both parables were anonymous?, and how clearly Allah told us that ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Here is a parable????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? straight after warning us from inventing parables and associating it to Him, this warning is for those who say sura 111 and other verses are parables, their ego and arrogance made them so blind not to see these clear facts including that Allah never told us in advance that sura 111 is a parable, their logic regarding the matter of Abu Lahab, lacks merit, Quran understanding, and most importantly the common sense if the simple fact that sura 111 never suggested that Abu Lahab or his wife were bad humans is considered by them, well, what they also have to consider along with 16:74-76, verse 16:105:
Only they invent falsehood who believe not Allah's revelations, and (only) they are the liars. [The Quran ; 16:105]
???????????????????????????????????? إِنَّمَا يَفْتَرِي الْكَذِبَ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ وَأُوْلئِكَ هُمُ الْكَاذِبُونَ (105)
phoenix1 wrote:
Going by the Quranic lesson of verification, i would need clear proof of their existence to believe they were real.
1) Allah never told us in sura 111 ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Here is a parable????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢
2) There was no indication in sura 111 that Abu Lahab and his wife were bad people to be condemned.
3) Comparing the alleged parable with the same parable in 18:32-44, makes it very clear that sura 111 is not a parable.
phoenix1 wrote:
But it really doesn't matter.
If it does not matter then the ones who started promoting this non sense should explain to us why it was important for them to promote it 1400 years after?, the old man said if it ain????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t break don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t fix it, now how considering that Abu Lahab and his wife were real people can be considered a broken faith by the traditionists?
For the other millions who believe that Abu Lahab and his wife were real people, it matters because, those who promote this non sense are saying indirectly that those millions are dumb deaf and blind, which I agree it is a possibility but only if they can prove their case using the Quran, now those dumb millions whom I belong to them can easily slam dunk this alleged and non sensible claim using the Quran as I just did with the help of Allah.
phoenix1 wrote:
here's why:
If we take the surah to be just a story, then we might need to prove them real. If we take it to be a story with a purpose, a lesson or moral for us, then it doesn't matter.
Bro, that put a smile on my face, but thanks for your go at it, based on your logic then we have to prove all other stories mentioned in the Quran are real, in addition, we will need to prove that Allah is real because Allah is another story mentioned in the Quran, thanks for the insight bro I can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t prove that Allah is real though, I can only believe that He is real and I can only believe in what He tells me in the Quran that is 100% real. Even when it is a parable I have to believe 100% that it is a parable. And this is still considered real because the reality is to consider a clear cut parable as a parable.
phoenix1 wrote:
Because that person in the story, whether real or not, is used as an example.
See, if it ain????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t broken, don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t fix it
phoenix1 wrote:
That example, and what we learn from it, is what's important. Not whether the person really lived or not.
Well, you may have a word with the ones who came 1400 years after and say they were not real
Looks like phenx is a looser and you have proved it many times. But for the sake of argument lets carry on.
Quote:
I guess he will say 99.9= 100.00 if you round it up
Why round it up! the famous saying is, dont mix mangos with apples.
Quote:
Possibly his evidence will be something like this:
if you go and buy anything for 9.99 bucks, you end up paying 10.00 bucks because there is no one cent any more.
Exactly above is the level of his thinking. Otherwise if someones kid's chances to live is .1%, his parents will giveup everything and take that .1% chance, there are numberless examples where people have took this outstanding chance. So what I mean to say is .1% means alot and it cannot be ignored or rounded.
Quote:
makes sense to me and i have to say that it is very convincing
My question was actually very simple;
I wonder if this phoenix1 can prove that his father is his real father cos dna testing can provide 99.9% probability of paternity/maternity NOT 100%
His best prove will be his mother and not the dna, not the logics which he carry in his pocket.
Posted:
Sun 28 Jan, 2007 1:29 pm
Anonymous
Status:
Faith:
Post subject:
Ahmed, If you believe that Abu Lahab was a real human being then please bring me actual evidence, otherwise my point stands un-slam dunked.
I think it's 6:25 where it says that the quran is not about "tales of the ancient."
You are saying that the stories in the quran all just stories about people who lived thousands of years ago, and they contain nothing but the most obvious and shallow "lessons."
This is my point, which you have been unable to refute:
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether they were real or not. We don't have to believe in these people like Santa Claus.
They are mentioned in the quran to teach us a lesson, as examples.
Like if you were trying to explain to your kids what a loser is. And you tell them a story about Phoenix1. Now, your kids might ask,
"is Phoenix1 a real person, Daddy?"
Well, you will say, "It doesn't matter."
Why doesn't it matter? Because that's not the point of the story. It would be a waste of time trying to prove to them that Phoenix1 is real. And while you would do that, the real message of the story would be lost. Your kids would learn that Phoenix1 is a real person, but they wouldn't learn what a loser is.
So, you will say, "It doesn't matter. The point is that if you are a loser like Phoenix1, you will go to hell. Understand?"
And they will understand.
And that's what the quran does. Why does it keep telling us to "bring forth your proof" and then it doesn't give us proof of those people's existence?
why isn't more information given to us about Abu Lahab? Because it is NOT IMPORTANT.
Do you understand my point now, Ahmed?
peace.
Posted:
Fri 09 Mar, 2007 7:48 am
Anonymous
Status:
Faith:
Post subject:
I wonder if this phoenix1 can prove that his father is his real father cos dna testing can provide 99.9% probability of paternity/maternity NOT 100%[quote]
What does this have anything to do with what I said?
I don't see the relevance.
Posted:
Fri 09 Mar, 2007 7:51 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
Ahmed, If you believe that Abu Lahab was a real human being then please bring me actual evidence, otherwise my point stands un-slam dunked.
Hello
I did do just that and it is sura 112 is enough of an evidence to the guided ones
Anonymous wrote:
I think it's 6:25 where it says that the quran is not about "tales of the ancient."
Not sure, however what the Quran says is this:
It is not ASATIR Al Awalin,
i.e. it is not UNREAL stories from the ancient
Anonymous wrote:
You are saying that the stories in the quran all just stories about people who lived thousands of years ago, and they contain nothing but the most obvious and shallow "lessons."
Mister smart, the stories in the Quran are not UNREAL stories from the past, they are REAL stories from the past
I guess a child should understand that
Anonymous wrote:
This is my point, which you have been unable to refute:
I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not interested to refute you, what I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m interested in is to show the message of the Quran according to its literal Arabic words
Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether they were real or not.
why you say it does not matter?, do you have an evidence to support you silly claim that it does not matter?
Anonymous wrote:
We don't have to believe in these people like Santa Claus.
what a confused person you are
Santa is not real you moron, of course those people mentioned in the Quran are not like santa because they were for real
Anonymous wrote:
They are mentioned in the quran to teach us a lesson, as examples.
what a load of non sense
so instead of telling us directly that money should not be used to abuse any system, it tells us a story of a non existent couple
what a moron you are
Anonymous wrote:
Like if you were trying to explain to your kids what a loser is.
BS, I will just tell them the bloody following
If you do that then you are a loser
Or if you say like what you say then you are a loser
Anonymous wrote:
And you tell them a story about Phoenix1. Now, your kids might ask,
"is Phoenix1 a real person, Daddy?"
of course if I use as an example then you have to be real, indeed I will just do that and use you as an example of a confused so called believer
see you exist, you are not like santa, please get off your Barbie time machine
Anonymous wrote:
Well, you will say, "It doesn't matter."
what does not matter?, that Allah stories are real or not?
Of course it does, if they are not real no one should take Him seriously
Who are you misguiding exactly mate?
Anonymous wrote:
Why doesn't it matter?
It does for me so I will dismiss your reason why it does not for you
Anonymous wrote:
Because that's not the point of the story. It would be a waste of time trying to prove to them that Phoenix1 is real. And while you would do that, the real message of the story would be lost. Your kids would learn that Phoenix1 is a real person, but they wouldn't learn what a loser is.
Anonymous wrote:
So, you will say, "It doesn't matter.
again, it does matter
Anonymous wrote:
The point is that if you are a loser like Phoenix1, you will go to hell. Understand?"
and if Phoenix1is not real then I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m a clear cut liar because no one is the name of phoenix1 existed, i.e. phoenix1 is not really going to hell as I told my child
Anonymous wrote:
And they will understand.
That I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m a liar of course
Anonymous wrote:
And that's what the quran does. Why does it keep telling us to "bring forth your proof" and then it doesn't give us proof of those people's existence?
why isn't more information given to us about Abu Lahab? Because it is NOT IMPORTANT.
Why you don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t believe God?
Anonymous wrote:
Do you understand my point now, Ahmed?
peace.
I do understand your point that you don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t believe God.
What is your proof of God anyway?
Sure you have no proofs that is why you don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t believe Him
Status: Age: 34 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 21, 2006
Posts: 31
Post subject:
Again, unless you can bring me hard evidence of Abu Lahab's existence, my point remains unrefuted. That's all I can say.
If there is no proof, that means what the quran is saying is nothing but a story. If you can't understand this, then you are not one of the "guided ones" but one of the ignorant ones.
Quote:
so instead of telling us directly that money should not be used to abuse any system, it tells us a story of a non existent couple
what a moron you are
I'm a moron?
Are you kidding me? Are you telling me that you don't know what examples are?
Quote:
Santa is not real you moron, of course those people mentioned in the Quran are not like santa because they were for real
OK, how about I claim that Santa Clause is real?
wouldn't you ask me for proof?
Posted:
Fri 09 Mar, 2007 10:40 am
The Rook
Status: Age: 110 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Posts: 529
Post subject:
Quote:
phoenix1 wrote:
Again, unless you can bring me hard evidence of Abu Lahab's existence, my point remains unrefuted.
# before v discuss historical figures/events and hard evidence, enlighten me about:
the crime of abu lahab? whyz he been condemned?
the crime of his woman? whyz she been condemned?
Posted:
Fri 09 Mar, 2007 5:22 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
phoenix1 wrote:
Again, unless you can bring me hard evidence of Abu Lahab's existence,
Why don't you bring me a hard evidence that God exists?
phoenix1 wrote:
my point remains unrefuted.
I'm sorry, if you claim to be a believer then you have no point from the first place
but if you are a kafir (a rejector) then sure you make great sense and I can see your point clearly
phoenix1 wrote:
That's all I can say.
so nothing you will say after the above?
phoenix1 wrote:
If there is no proof, that means what the quran is saying is nothing but a story.
shit, I thought you finished your speech
phoenix1 wrote:
If you can't understand this, then you are not one of the "guided ones" but one of the ignorant ones.
great, are you feeling sad for me or somethin?
Quote:
so instead of telling us directly that money should not be used to abuse any system, it tells us a story of a non existent couple
what a moron you are
phoenix1 wrote:
I'm a moron?
sorry, no you are not
you are an oxymoron
phoenix1 wrote:
Are you kidding me?
I'm damn serious
phoenix1 wrote:
Are you telling me that you don't know what examples are?
Status: Age: 110 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 26, 2006
Posts: 529
Post subject:
Quote:
ahmedbahgat wrote:
so nothing you will say after the above?
# i remember a dialog with a wannabe over this issue, and i provided her with arab accounts, which are accepted and endorsed by historians, muslims and non-muslims! through them v know possible reasons why abu lahab and his wife have been condemned in the quran!
## i then asked her what proof she had for her claim....any historical work which will tell us that the narrrative is parabolic.....
....no hard evidence!
okay....what is the moral of this story....what do v learn from it?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
All times are GMT + 10 Hours Ported for PHP-Nuke by nukemods.com
