Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
I was asked a question by another kafir during the discussion with Khalil:
skynightblaze wrote:
@ahmed
I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran?
Well, the religion of Ibrahim is really nothing than submitting to Allah, you know Ibrahim was the one who called us Muslims, again your man made books of hadith are not needed but if you desire to shove it up yours, please do, I can help ya in that too
And another question by another Kafir who is an inmate in my Cyber Correctional Centre for the Life Dismissals of FFI:
Ahmed chose to reply to one of the CCCLDFFI inmates
Trojan wrote:
Ahmed,
I know you will ignore me, but for the benefit of others and the thread, will you please explain the following:
Where in the koran did allah tell you that all Muslim males have to be circumcized? Show me a single verse in the koran that says it. Yet you have willingly lobbed of the end of your son's penis' for generations .....no? Did this ritual not come from the hadiths ? ? ?
I have replied to this many times, do not follow the footsteps of uncrcumcised and filthy pisscohot
As I said many times, Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, and as you know a Doctor is one who have authority to have a say regarding such matter that can cause filth and risk to the human health, and because most doctors agreed that it should be done for males to protect their health, the Muslims should obey them, on the other hand I do not think that by not obeying them they would have committed any sin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Khalil added his afterthoughts:
KhaliL FarieL of FFI said:
My afterthoughts
Piscohot asks how exactly Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham; It is easy as Ahmed made it clear in his response.
The verse Ahmed chosen to start is Quran 3:68 read as:
Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Messenger and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.[Quran 3:68]
This should be understood in its context. The verse precedes it(67) confirms Abraham was neither Jewish nor Christian but was a Hanif Muslim. Just knowing Abraham was a Muslim was made sufficient for Muhammad and Muslims under him to follow Abraham?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting.
Ahmed Bahgat has a solid case here as a Muslim.
If Muhammad could follow Abraham?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting because Allah assured him within a few words, that is sufficient for Ahmed Bahgat to argue the same Allah?????????????????????¢??s words Quran is sufficient for Muslims to follow Muhammad?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting to Allah. No additional materials are necessary. A Muslim can research through Quran and find out the truth about his god and the way of submitting to him.
To be succinct, Ahmed proved following Muhammad does not require knowing the person?????????????????????¢??s details rather what Allah said about the person Muhammad and Muhammad?????????????????????¢??s way of submitting is enough. So, the argument I brought in my OP as to follow a person one should know the person in details is thoroughly refuted by Ahmed Bahgat using Quran. I am convinced in this matter.
In normal lives we can argue if I want to follow a person for example Gandhi, I should know Gandhi in details. But here the matter is connected to faith. Faith does not require more but just believing in what has said to be believed is sufficient for a believer. And Ahmed Bahgat is a believer and he can believe whatever Quran commands him to believe in the way Allah instructed. If Muhammad and Muslims under Muhammad could follow Abraham without the help of any other sources except Allah?????????????????????¢??s words of assurance, why should Ahmed Bahgat a Muslim needs any other materials than Allah?????????????????????¢??s words (Quran) to believe in Allah and to submit to him in subservience?
Ahmed Bahgat proved his case, so my argument in the OP does not stand. It is all I meant.
______________________________________________________
And @Ahmed Bahgat,
When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus?????????????????????¢??s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes. That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions. You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts. IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran why not try for it? Acquiring a PhD should not be your aim rather your efforts can sometimes help Muslims to shed their seventh century burden and get along with the evolving time. {But you should be careful in this case, as there are fanatics around who can not tolerate your views}
And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration. That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have. Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed. It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed; (I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there.
The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults. Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don?????????????????????¢??t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :)
PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
This is my reply to Khalil afterthoughts above:
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
[background=white]And @Ahmed Bahgat[/background],
When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus?????????????????????¢??s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes.
Sure, and for the case I made regarding Jesus death, it is not something that I invented, it was something that I learnt many years ago from a Muslim sheikh who is very well respected by all Muslim Ummah, Shiekh Sharaawi who died about three years ago, that sheikh was a professor in the Arabic language, and he was the most wanted to do the Hajj Khutba, he is an Egyptian though, all accresses and actors in Egypt who quit acting, did so after talking to him directly. In fact the Saudi government one day asked the Egyptian government to relocate him to S A and they will pay his weight as gold and the offer was declined, he is my Quran mentor and through him I learnt how to cross reference the Quran, and possibly it will be done better by someone who has access to technology and even can create technology for it.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions.
Ironically mate, I found it so easy to search the Quran if you know the words Arabic root, I wonder how all those confused Arab Muslim don?????????????????????¢??t do it after the massive computer revolution for the last 10 years or so
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts.
The one who can make a difference is Allah, possibly they have been cursed into the days of Jahilyah again, who klnows, what I can only do is my best in proving that many of these idolgies that we inherited do not belong to the Quran, rather may be influenced by some sick human minds, the women marriage and divorce is a clear case of that, however they manipulate Allah laws to suit their desires of continuing to oppress the women, an act they inherited from their fathers again, you can see this clearly in a country like S A where their oppression of women is so bold that they prevent them from driving, while we see in the Quran te wives of the prophet have been appointed to an executive role.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran
That can not be called reforming nor redefining, rather back to originality, especially that I am a literal type of guy,, i.e. I take all the Quran words as literal unless there is good logical reason not to do so, i.e. I should take it as a metaphor, and even in such case I do not violate my own literal law, because for me the literal meaning of a metaphor is a metaphor.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
why not try for it?
Certainly it is an objective that I have, I will be delighted to dedicate my 24 hours a day for serving Allah, currently I can?????????????????????¢??t as I have debits to take care of, mortgages to pay and young children to raise, however I am trying to fit it as a full time job sithin all these must do activities to survive.
Acquiring a PhD should not be your aim rather your efforts can sometimes help Muslims to shed their seventh century burden and get along with the evolving time. {But you should be careful in this case, as there are fanatics around who can not tolerate your views}
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration.
I agree, but as you can predict that my first line of fire is going to be the Arab Muslims, and I can assure you that when dealing with Arabs and corner them, they will start attacking you maliciously, I inherited such malice attack from them, however my causes to attack is absolutely different to them, I attack who attack, I never start with an attack, yet again, I am doing what the Quran tell me to do exactly.
The Arabs too are known for resorting to cheap moves, something that I never do or at least try not to do, sometime you are forced to be cheap though, the bottom line is this, iit is not like I will go and tell them in the most nicest way, come on guys, you are wrong because the Quran said so and so, I must be attacked and they must attack my own personality, I am sure you have seen it in here, and I have seen it myself so many times with such unique race of people, not unique in any ting better than others, rather unique in their way of life and in their way of understanding life, an example is this:
That guy whom I mentioned in my article in this thread who I confronted with 42:21 and he acted dumb by telling me that 42:21 does not say that following Bukhari book is shirk, that guy asked me to talk directly through msn, while I really hate such chat as it is a huge time wasting activity, I did not let him down and gave him my msn address, he quickly contacted me and at that time I had my avatar of myself, my wife and my two children, now my wife is a Muslim western woman, who pears pair of pants like most western women and even Arab women do, the arsehole used such image to attack me, and my wife on such Arabic web site, by all of a sudden telling everyone not to listen to me because I am full of shit and that was obvious from the photo of my family that he saw, then he started talking ill about my wife, what a piece of jerk he was mate, I totally demolished him in the most malice manner possible, those confused people do not even understand the message of the Quran that no one can guide anyone even the loved ones but Allah guides whomsoever he wills, that does not mean that my wife is not guided, quite the contrary she is a Hajjah as well, something that I yet to do, all in all dealing with such race is different and I believe that I will be most suited to deal with them because I came from them then blessed with the chance to gain knowledge and educate myself in civilised environment, that is what is going to make me effective with them, on the other hand it will take a great deal from me to ignore their personal attacks and continue in a nice way, I must attack those who attack me, this is everyone?????????????????????¢??s right, with religion or without, self defence is a must.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have.
But I am sure many of them read my writings in here, and as you can see for yourself that non of those so called Muslim is able to reply to me, XXX is another example of such, I even went to their web sites, and surely I have taken their attention, but quick they show the other face and either ban you or threaten you, that is why I created Free Islam.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed.
Look, I am trying to give it a bit of funand a bit of a story line, you know as inmate pis alleges, I am the story telle. The bottom line is this, if I do not do that, it will be a very boring game to play.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed;
See, on that period of time, I had a dismissal sale, and you should expect that it will attract more customers, everyone is looking for bargain
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
(I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there.
I reckon Miss Waste at least will be permeant in there
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults.Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don?????????????????????¢??t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :)
Keep it clean and do not insult Allah or any of his prophets and you will never be there, you may mock Isla,m, Muslims and the Quran and myself, but I just cannot see myself dialoguing with people who mock Allah or any of His prophets, it won?????????????????????¢??t happen. Even with so called Muslims. And I consider their man made books of hadith is clear mocking to the prophet and even to Allah.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:
PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.
Cheers
KF
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Then that shifty goon anti kept harassing me:
antineoETC wrote:
Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:
Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?:
Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)Thanks
AhmedBahgat wrote:
How about you be strightforward first and tell me what is that you are trying to prove?
antineoETC wrote:
Why don't you just answer my straightforward question Muslim? Otherwise just say "I'm not answering that" and let people draw their own conclusions. I'm not going to bring an english rendering of that verse and have you take issue with its accuracy.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
How about, you are dismissed
antineoETC wrote:
Another "slam dunk" by the "great debater" eh AB?
antineoETC wrote:
Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)
antineoETC wrote:
So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?
So I replied with a real slam:
Let me show you what a slam dunk is:
antineoETC wrote:
Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)
So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?
4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.
6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. [The Quran ; 60:4&6]
قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)
-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I?????????????????????¢??m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.
For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don?????????????????????¢??t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
One of the kafirs of FFI was not happy with Khalil decent concession to my refute:
Centaur wrote:
I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come
Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj
So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad?
So Khalil replied to him: Dear Centaur,
Nothing weird has happened to me. I was certain my post will incite these kinds of doubts in FFI, but let me say, I am staying under Sharia but gives no damn to it. I am still against Islam; you can check my recent post in Muslims and Ex-Muslims section. Here is the link: http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1084
This thread was started by me and I brought forth a point which I thought will prove Quran only is not possible for Muslims. But that point has been refuted by Ahmed Bahgat and I was being honest to admit it. Let me say again: I appreciate Ahmed Bahgat?????????????????????¢??s work which refuted my opening post. If a point is refuted and if I understand it is no longer stands, I have no problem in admitting it. And the person who refuted me deserves credit too. I congratulated Ahmed for it.
And one point to understand is this thread is not meant to refute Islam, but a notion among Muslims. And what Ahmed Bahgat refuted is one of the many of my points and conclusion can made only after I bring forth all of my points. So this contest is still open. I mentioned it in my post to Ahmed too. I will be creating another thread with other points. My first post is refuted. All credit to Ahmed Bahgat. Now, I will bring my other points but let me take my time.
Please do not make any hasty conclusions. If Ahmed Bahgat is making good points, he deserves our respect because here clash of ideas occur; not clash of personalities..
I have many disagreements with Ahmed Bahgat and they still stand. But that is not a bar for me to respect the person when he is coming up with substance.
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
One of the kafirs of FFI was not happy with Khalil decent concession to my refute:
Centaur wrote:
I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come
Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj
So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad?
So Khalil replied to him: Dear Centaur,
Nothing weird has happened to me. I was certain my post will incite these kinds of doubts in FFI, but let me say, I am staying under Sharia but gives no damn to it. I am still against Islam; you can check my recent post in Muslims and Ex-Muslims section. Here is the link: http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1084
This thread was started by me and I brought forth a point which I thought will prove Quran only is not possible for Muslims. But that point has been refuted by Ahmed Bahgat and I was being honest to admit it. Let me say again: I appreciate Ahmed Bahgat?????????????????????¢??s work which refuted my opening post. If a point is refuted and if I understand it is no longer stands, I have no problem in admitting it. And the person who refuted me deserves credit too. I congratulated Ahmed for it.
And one point to understand is this thread is not meant to refute Islam, but a notion among Muslims. And what Ahmed Bahgat refuted is one of the many of my points and conclusion can made only after I bring forth all of my points. So this contest is still open. I mentioned it in my post to Ahmed too. I will be creating another thread with other points. My first post is refuted. All credit to Ahmed Bahgat. Now, I will bring my other points but let me take my time.
Please do not make any hasty conclusions. If Ahmed Bahgat is making good points, he deserves our respect because here clash of ideas occur; not clash of personalities..
I have many disagreements with Ahmed Bahgat and they still stand. But that is not a bar for me to respect the person when he is coming up with substance.
Please stay tuned.
Regards
KF
After reading this, KF earns my appreciation and respect too. We can have our differences but when one is right, the other would naturally accept it. That is the gesture we need on forums.
Thanks for bringing the posts here. Please convey my best wishes and warm regards to Khalil.
Baig
Posted:
Wed 25 Feb, 2009 9:04 pm
parvez_mushtaq Pawn
Status: Age: 49 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 36
Post subject:
dear ahmed .
i want to comment on the verses you have selected and it is better for US to discuss before a kafir teaches US in this regards
i know this things will add fuel to their intentions
but
the on road reality is we are like this
Quote:
Mohammed must have followed what Allah revealed to him, see this verse, another 100% Sahih hadith by Mohammed:
Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?
[The Quran ; 6:50]
قل لا اقول لكم عندي خزائن الله ولا اعلم الغيب ولا اقول لكم اني ملك ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي قل هل يستوي الاعمي والبصير افلا تتفكرون
-> How clear, again and again, see what Mohammed was saying to the people: Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Now every single Kafir and Mushrik Muslim should know that what was revealed to Mohammed can not be the man made crap books of hadith, this is because of two obvious reasons:
1- Such crap books called books of hadith did not exist during Mohammed time
2- Allah never revealed such man made crap books of hadith to Mohammed
-> No wonder the verse is ending by telling those confused freaks in yet another 100% sahih hadith by Mohammed: Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?
And again Mohammed confirmed in his true hadith (through the Quran) that he was ONLY following what Allah has revealed to him
Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.
[The Quran ; 46:9]
قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين
-> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me
-> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute.
The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible:
This is a very clear cut statement from GOD, then I don?????????????????????¢??t know why people think Mohammed (pbuh) knows even about the unseen
One thing that comes immediately to my mind is, salman amry in his workshop went on giving a list of people who can intercede
Even he gave a details for example, if child die then that child will intercede its parents, and the lists continues
And there are many things that can be debated by this verse
I mean things that one I had mentioned above
Quote:
And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance.
[The Quran ; 2:170]
واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما الفينا عليه اباءنا اولو كان اباؤهم لا يعقلون شيئا ولا يهتدون
-> It can?????????????????????¢??t get clearer than this, see: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has sent down, they said: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers, THAT IS EXACTLY THE CASE WITH ALL THOSE MUSHRIK MUSLIMS BOUND TO HELL, every time I tell those freaks the same Quran message: Follow what Allah has sent down , they tell me boldly, how come all the previous generations in 1400 years were wrong, i.e. they must follow what their fathers used to follow: We shall follow what we used to from our fathers , and even if their fathers were confused as hell, they still follow them, that is is the exact same as the Christians and the Jews, all bound to hell, see what Allah is telling us next: even though their fathers do not understand a thing, nor do they follow the guidance. , i.e. they are nothing but a bunch of stubborn Muzhiks who are in the process of securing their pits in hell. In fact using the same Muslim flawed argument that how come all these generations in 1400 years were flawed, then the Christian argument must be admissible too, that how come all those generations of Christians were flawed over 2000 years, if the Muslims use such flawed argument, then they should dare not to tell the Christians that their religion was flawed for 2000 years.
This common flaw by the humans of following their parents even if their parents know nothing is very common in humanity, look around you and you should see most of those following a religion are only following what they inherited from their parents without thinking if their parents were wrong or not, for them, their parents must have been right:
And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire!
[The Quran ; 31:21]
واذا قيل لهم اتبعوا ما انزل الله قالوا بل نتبع ما وجدنا عليه اباءنا اولو كان الشيطان يدعوهم الي عذاب السعير
-> See: And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. It makes no difference to them if their parents were flawed, it is like they are invited by their parents to the hellfire and they are happy to follow them, see: It is like the Shaitan calls them to the torture of the hellfire!
In the next we read clearly what the believers should follow, let?????????????????????¢??s see:
This is a real beauty
I feel, as Christians following bible blindly we Muslim follow hadiths
But if you say those people, they will say, these verses are regarding those pagan arabs , but they fail to put themselves in this verses
Quote:
And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, and follow not the (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His way; this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah).
[The Quran ; 6:153]
وان هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه ولا تتبعوا السبل فتفرق بكم عن سبيله ذلكم وصاكم به لعلكم تتقون
-> See what Allah is telling us to follow: And this is My path, (which is) straight, therefore follow it, , in fact in the same verse Allah is warning us not to follow any other path: and follow not the (other) ways , sounds like Allah is warning us against these crap books of hadith that He never sent, see what Allah is telling us next, that is if we follow such non sense books of hadith (the other ways): for they will lead you away from His way, HOW CLEAR, this is exactly what happened to the confused Muslims, they ignored what Allah has sent which we should only follow, and followed other man made crap which Allah never sent, which resulted in the division of Islam into numerous sects and ideologies. Can you see that by listening to Allah we will be Muttaqeen (fearful of Allah): this (is what) He has enjoined you with that you may fear (Allah). , however the confused Muslims do not want to do that, they do not want to fear Allah, they only fear the heads of shirk through their Mullah, Imams, Muftis and Sheikhs, for them, what those confused punks (the hadith writers and their followers) say, is more of a value than what Allah says. I seek refuge in Allah.
In fact, two verses down, Allah clearly told us what His straight path that we should follow is:
And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy.
[The Quran ; 6:155]
وهذا كتاب انزلناه مبارك فاتبعوه واتقوا لعلكم ترحمون
-> How clear, certainly the straight path of Allah must be through His Quran, see: And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy., therefore those who do not follow it, or shirk it with other books that Allah never sent down do not fear Allah nor they will receive mercy from Him.
We also read in the Sahih Hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) that he asked those freaks to bring another book (FROM ALLAH) other than the Quran that is better so he may follow it:
wish they pay heed to this verses
Quote:
Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it, if you are truthful.
[The Quran ; 28:49]
قل فاتوا بكتاب من عند الله هو اهدي منهما اتبعه ان كنتم صادقين
-> See the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: Then bring some (other) book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, (that) I may follow it. Well we know well that all these man made crap books of hadith are not FROM ALLAH, so how come we should follow it? The verse here is clear, that we may follow other books but only if:
1- The book is from Allah
2- The book is better in guidance than the Quran
Now the man made books of hadith are not from Allah nor they are better guidance than the Quran, therefore Muslims have committed no sin by not following such crap books of man made hadith, according to 28:49
Mohammed was a warner for those who accept and follow the Quran, see this verse:
But they uphold hadiths and even they say , quran is not the same as that was reveled to Mohammed (pbuh)
For example, regarding verse 2-106
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
I am happy that shia don?????????????????????¢??t believe this (quran is changed may be because of hadrat umar)
Quote:
Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, little that you remember.
[The Quran ; 7:3]
اتبعوا ما انزل اليكم من ربكم ولا تتبعوا من دونه اولياء قليلا ما تذكرون
-> Very clear that Allah is telling us to follow what he sent down: Follow (plural) what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him as guardians, , there will be no punk of those kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims who has balls to tell us that these man made crap books of hadith are what Allah has sent down. The fact remains intact, that those punks from among the kafirs and their fellow Mushrik Muslims do not want to remember: little that you remember.
In the next verse we read another Sahih hadith of Mohammed (through the Quran) in such hadith, it is clearly said that Mohammed was a believer in Allah words, not Bukhari words, not Muslim words, and certainly not any of those confused hadith writers words:
not only hadiths , but they also take the person whom they like
for exaple . TNTJ people take zainullah as there role model, and people following yasir qadhi and lists goes on ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦.
Without thinking what quran says even what hadiths says
Quote:
And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me; indeed I fear if I disobey my Lord, the torture of a mighty day.
[The Quran ; 10:15]
واذا تتلي عليهم اياتنا بينات قال الذين لا يرجون لقاءنا ائت بقران غير هذا او بدله قل ما يكون لي ان ابدله من تلقاء نفسي ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي اني اخاف ان عصيت ربي عذاب يوم عظيم
-> See: And when Our signs are recited to them clearly, those who desire not Our meeting say: Bring a Quran other than this or change it. , well it seems that all those hadith writers and their fellow Mushrik Muslims were not happy with the Quran alone, and because Mohammed was dead at that and this time, so they could not ask him likewise the kafir asked him, to bring another book but the Quran, so they created their own books, many of them that contradict each other, as well contradict itself, these books can not be called the straight path, they are indeed the deviant path that most Muslims chose to follow in addition to the straight path of Allah (the Quran), see what Mohammed said to those freaks request as stated in his Sahih Hadith (through the Quran): Say: It is not for me that I change it on my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me, i.e. by following Mohammed, we should follow what was revealed to him from Allah, this revelation is nothing but the Quran, that is why those freaks asked him to bring another Quran other than the Quran that Allah sent. You should know that the word Quran implies reading, i.e. those freaks were asking for other books so they read it and seek guidance from it, and that is exactly what happened to the confused Ummah of Muslims, they read such man made books and spread its message between the believers while totally ignoring the Quran, or just giving it the least attention, they are fixated on such man made carp books of hadith, the man made books that Allah never sent or revealed to anyone. No wonder that Mohammed himself will bear witness against them on the judgment day, let?????????????????????¢??s read:
They have done this already
For example muttah
And we can name lots of things like this
Quote:
And the messenger would say: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.
[The Quran ; 25:30]
وقال الرسول يا رب ان قومي اتخذوا هذا القران مهجورا
-> How clear, the prophet is bearing witness against his own people that they ignored the Quran: O my Lord! Indeed, my people has abandoned this Quran.
Following Mohammed or any other prophet for that matter, is nothing but following the path of Allah, this is because Mohammed had no mean to warn or guide the people except with the Quran, therefore if we follow Mohammed in the Quran then we are automatically following the path of Allah:
Muslims need to realize, this verse is talking about Muslims , cos only Muslims read quran
One more interesting verse is the verse that follows this
025.031
YUSUFALI: Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners: but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.
next comes a very intersting topic , i will post tomorrow
Posted:
Wed 25 Feb, 2009 11:47 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Thank you brother P. Mushtaq for continuing this important discussion, i will wait till you finish your thoughts then I will reply inshaallah
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Quote:
Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.
[The Quran ; 46:9]
قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل وما ادري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ان اتبع الا ما يوحي الي وما انا الا نذير مبين
-> See again the true hadith of Mohammed: Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me
-> See how Mohammed was sort of telling them that following him is nothing new: I am not the first of the messengers, rather the exact same that happened with all messengers before him, that they must have told their people to follow them, you should read a few examples of such other messengers later in this refute.
The problem for such Mushrik Muslims who shirk what Allah has sent with what Allah never sent, is simply this, they follow what their parents were following, i.e. they inherited their shirk, let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah told us as such in the most clear way possible:
Quote:
And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful.
[The Quran ; 39:45]
واذا ذكر الله وحده اشمازت قلوب الذين لا يؤمنون بالاخرة واذا ذكر الذين من دونه اذا هم يستبشرون
-> See the striking similarity: And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter shrink, and when those other than Him are mentioned, at once, they are joyful. I agree that the verse above is talking about those who do not believe in the hereafter, while all those confused Muslims claim to believe in the hereafter, however how we know that those Muslims really believe in the hereafter, see these verses:
Quote:
And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone.
[The Quran ; 72:18]
وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا
-> How clear again, I say yeh those Imams mention the name of the Allah, BUT ONLY WHEN THEY PRAISE MOHAMMED, i.e. when they mention Mohammed, they say Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, see in the process of praising Mohammed, they mentioned Allah, WITHOUT PRAISINSG ALLAH, in fact if you read the English writings of many of those confused Muslims, you will always see most of them writing the word Mohammed then after it in brackets (SAWS), i.e. the confused freaks abbreviated the name of Allah to the letter A while writing the name of Mohammed complete, HOW DUMB AND CONFUSED THEY ARE. The Arab writers are as confused as those English writers, when they write Mohammed in Arabic you see after it straight away in very tiny font and the words on top of each other ?????????????????????¢??Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam?????????????????????¢?? in Arabic, you can barely ready the word Allah in it, or they just write the letter ?????????????????????¢??Sad?????????????????????¢?? between brackets, you can see a sample on this web site http://www.tibneen.com/Mohammad.aspx , how clear that those confused Muslims are clearly Mushrikoon and idol worshippers of Mohammed.
you know why those Mushrikoon shorten the words Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam because they mention Mohammed zillions of times in like 15 minutes speech or one page document, they have to bloody shorten it, otherwise when you try to read such writing it may look like that it is the only sentence in there Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Salam, regardless of my joke, the fact remains intact that they also mention the name of Allah zillions of times while when they praise Mohammed, while absolutely not caring to praise Him the slightest, all they care about is to praise Mohammed, let me show you the next verse and see for yourself the striking similarity:
This verse reminds me a program that I watched on QTV by Dr. Tahir ul Qadri
As per him, he meladun-nabi should be celebrated and the justification he gave is very perfect
He started by saying three questions will be asked in the grave
1 who is you GOD
2 what is you religion
3 who is your prophet
He explains this in this way
1st. who is your GOD
The answer of this question will decide whether a person is a believer or not
In other words an atheist or a believer
So if the person answers yes, then he is decided as a believer and the answer is no then he goes hell direct
So assuming he answered ?????????????????????¢??yes?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? then the second question asked ?????????????????????¢??what is your relgion?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
If he answered Islam, then he is cornered if he answers something apart from this ( like jew, or a Christian or hindu ) he goes to hell
Now the cornered muslim is asked the 3rd and important question ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
And only answer of this question takes him to the heaven
If he answer?????????????????????¢??s Mohammed (pbuh) then he goes heaven otherwise to the hell
So he says , you can be a believer as well as a Muslim but if you don?????????????????????¢??t know the name of your prophet then you go to hell
So the third and most important question is ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The deciding question, you cannot go to heaven even if you are a believer or a Muslim
So in order to remember his name, we should celebrate festivals like meladdun-nabi
I don?????????????????????¢??t think he is wrong in his statement as far as I believe that I will be asked this three question
So where is the mistake in his statement , why people are against meladdun nabi
See, only celebrating meladdun nabi will take you to heaven , lol
and he conveniently omitted even hadiths in his justification
Quote:
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[The Quran ; 4:64]
وما ارسلنا من رسول الا ليطاع باذن الله ولو انهم اذ ظلموا انفسهم جاؤوك فاستغفروا الله واستغفر لهم الرسول لوجدوا الله توابا رحيما
-> See: And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , see, even Mohammed was following and obeying the message of Ibrahim, therefore if we do the same, then we are followers and obedient to the commands of Allah.
In the following verse, we read that those unjust people when they face the music of death, they will ask Allah to delay their death so they follow the MESSENGERS:
This is a very important verse
Particularly,
...., come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
People who go to draaga (holy shrines) give this ayah as their justification
And they say , Mohammed (pbuh) is still alive and so if we ask him for forgiveness and if he ask forgiveness for us then Allah subhanawatala will forgive our sins and this is can generalized for holy people also cos those people don?????????????????????¢??t die so can be our mediators
But there are people who deny this
Good
Their statement is , this was regarding those people who were with prophet and cannot be generalized till now and being a human prophet was dead and so this verse is for those people who lived those days
Good , I am happy and they are correct and they give proof from quran also
Good
But
If you ask the same people about a verse few verses before, that is
04.059
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
They have a different answer
Why partiality?
Why I should think even this verse was regarding the context as same as verse 4-64
Quote:
Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding.
[The Quran ; 39:18]
الذين يستمعون القول فيتبعون احسنه اولئك الذين هداهم الله واولئك هم اولوا الالباب
-> See: Those who listen to the saying, then follow the best of it; , certainly all these man made books of hadith are the sayings of all these people, it can not be the saying of Allah, therefore according to 39:18, the believers in Allah are permitted to reject many of these hadith sayings that can not be the best of sayings, how the following can be the best of saying:
1- The allegation that the prophet married Aysha when she was 6 years old, which does not make any sense.
2- The allegation that the prophet used to sleep with all his wives in an hour of a day or an hour of a night while not having a bath in between, which contradict the Quran
3- The allegation to drink camel urine, which does not make any sense
4- The allegation of stoning the adulterers, which contradicts the Quran
5- The allegation of killing the apostates, which contradicts the Quran.
6- The allegation that the prophet used to drink wine, which contradicts the Quran
I can keep listing many of such crap and non sense that are only found in the man made crap books of hadith.
There is only one criteria to be able to judge if any saying is bad, good or best, the criteria is simply to compare all such conjectures with the Quran, if it violates it the slightest then such saying can not be best, nor even good, rather a clear cut bad saying that much be rejected and dismissed in the nearest rubbish bin, yet you see most of those Muslims upholding such non sense as if it is from other divine books next to the book of Allah, would that be a type of SHIRK? I say it has to be if you read the following verse:
Again,
If we compare this verse and the verses like this that you have posted
Say: I do not say to you, I have the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; rather I follow that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and those with vision equal? Will you not then think?
[The Quran ; 6:50]
We can come to the conclusion, if quran does not authorize hadith then following that hadith is definitely a shirk
Quote:
And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, indeed the unbelievers are your obvious enemy.
[The Quran ; 4:101]
واذا ضربتم في الارض فليس عليكم جناح ان تقصروا من الصلاة ان خفتم ان يفتنكم الذين كفروا ان الكافرين كانوا لكم عدوا مبينا
-> See how clear the reason to shorten the prayer as stated by Allah: And if you travel in the land, then there should be no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you feared that those who have disbelieved will cause you discord, i.e. IF ONLY THE UNBELIEVERS IN SUCH LAND MAY CAUSE DISCORD TO US WHEN THEY SEE US PRAYING, it has absolutely nothing to do with distances, rather the fear that the unbelievers in such land where we travelled will try to cause discord to you, it can be even in next town 5 Km away, and certainly if I travel 1000 km to a land where its people will not cause discord to me when they see me praying, then there is absolutely no shortening in my prayer.
The above example proves the stupidity and ignorance of most Muslims, you know why they are so stupid and ignorant when it comes to the religion, because they are blindly following what their parents taught them, fine accept what your parent teach you, but as long as it does not contradict or manipulate what Allah has commanded regarding the same matter, now if you do and take such non sense of a reason to shorten the prayer, then I am sorry to tell you that 42:21 must apply to you, because YOU FOLLOWED WHAT THESE PEOPLE PRESCRIBED IN THE RELIGION THAT ALLAH NEVER SANCTIONED, and in this case of shortening the prayer, Allah even sanctioned something else that is totally ignored by all those Muslims who shorten their prayer, I am telling you, these people must be Mushrikoon along their belief. It cannot get more obvious for Allah sake.
This is real beauty and I can say you are at your best
with regards
Mushtaq
Posted:
Thu 26 Feb, 2009 7:38 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Quote:
And the mosques belong to Allah, so do not call with Allah anyone.
[The Quran ; 72:18]
وان المساجد لله فلا تدعوا مع الله احدا
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
This verse reminds me a program that I watched on QTV by Dr. Tahir ul Qadri
As per him, he meladun-nabi should be celebrated and the justification he gave is very perfect
He started by saying three questions will be asked in the grave
1 who is you GOD
2 what is you religion
3 who is your prophet
He explains this in this way
1st. who is your GOD
The answer of this question will decide whether a person is a believer or not
In other words an atheist or a believer
So if the person answers yes, then he is decided as a believer and the answer is no then he goes hell direct
So assuming he answered ?????????????????????¢??yes?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? then the second question asked ?????????????????????¢??what is your relgion?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
If he answered Islam, then he is cornered if he answers something apart from this ( like jew, or a Christian or hindu ) he goes to hell
Now the cornered muslim is asked the 3rd and important question ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
And only answer of this question takes him to the heaven
If he answer?????????????????????¢??s Mohammed (pbuh) then he goes heaven otherwise to the hell
So he says , you can be a believer as well as a Muslim but if you don?????????????????????¢??t know the name of your prophet then you go to hell
So the third and most important question is ?????????????????????¢??who is you prophet?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The deciding question, you cannot go to heaven even if you are a believer or a Muslim
So in order to remember his name, we should celebrate festivals like meladdun-nabi
I don?????????????????????¢??t think he is wrong in his statement as far as I believe that I will be asked this three question
So where is the mistake in his statement , why people are against meladdun nabi
See, only celebrating meladdun nabi will take you to heaven , lol
and he conveniently omitted even hadiths in his justification
Salam bother
I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you
Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent
Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others
Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.
The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge.
I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say?
Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less
However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children.
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Post subject:
Quote:
Salam bother
I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you
take your time brother
Quote:
Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent
Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others
well , i dont think they are correct in this
because , quran clearly tells barzakh is unseen and its secret belongs to ALLAH alone
all other are wild guesses
Quote:
Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.
The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge.
I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say?
he had already done that
he simply said , only answering the third question will take a MUSLIM to jannah
which means even a he be a believer if he does not answer the third question then he goes to hell
Quote:
Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less
However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children.
Take care
celebrating own birthday is one thing and celebrating prophet's birthday is other
non of his companions celebrated it
in fact do they precisely know the date of birth of prophet as we know our birth day
is this equivalent to Christmas
are they competing with Christmas and krishna jayanthi
uh what ever
jazak ALLAH
Mushtaq
Posted:
Mon 02 Mar, 2009 9:03 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Postby Cassie ????????????????????????????» Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:03 am
I suspect some of you Muslims reject the hadiths because they show just how horrible Muhammad was. Hence, you 'retreat' to become quran-only, thinking that it makes Islam less of a target of ridicule. However, you could not be more wrong - the Quran is horrible because it was created by a horrible person. The primitivity and savagery shows through. What sort of man would enslave little children and force slaves to have sex? What sort of evil person would take booty and spread 'terror' throughout the land? The Quran is an evil-inspired piece of work and it shows, Muslim. It really shows.
Being a Quran-only Muslim doesn't make you a good person. You're still following a despicable savage theology, created by a despicable savage person.
I have totally stopped writing at FFI for the simple reason that I will be very busy and also there is not a single Jesus freak or an ex-Muslim of any calibre. Most of the gang has the same calibre as that of Ali Sina.
Could you please ask this savage, primitive and despicable person, who litters the band wave with the repetitive junk and stuff, to come and write freely at the site which I have created for all polemicists?
She looks like an ex-Muslim from Afghanistan. Roflmao!
What an evil-inspired woman! looks like the biblical Jesus would need to drive out the demon into ten thousand pigs. lol!
Please do this if you can.
Thanks, mate
Salaams
Baig M Z
Posted:
Fri 13 Mar, 2009 8:16 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
Quote:
Salam bother
I would like to seak some time and comment about the above thoughts by you
take your time brother
Quote:
Firstly, fine that such allegation of being asked thhose three questions may be true, it cannot be confirmed though, however, it will can not apply for all those people who lived before Islam was sent
Imagine the people of Nuh for example, logicaly speaking they should be aksed the same three questions, and possibly the first two answeres are the same for all, but the last answer can never be, because in such case the answer should be 'my prophet was Nuh', same with the people of Ad, and Thamud, and hudred others
well , i dont think they are correct in this
because , quran clearly tells barzakh is unseen and its secret belongs to ALLAH alone
all other are wild guesses
Quote:
Highlighting the above alleged hadith by the so called ulmaa of hadith is nothing but to serve their desire of praising Mohammed more than the rest of Alaameen, and in many occasions more than Allah, even.
The above allegation of hadith is logically flawed because we will not be judged based on our answeres rather on our deeds, and our deeds are documented in a book and such book will be given to each one of us and each one of us will be the own initial judge.
I believe also that when the Ulmaa elaborated on such hadith they claimed that you will be forced to the answers that suit each one's deeds, so what is the point, I say?
he had already done that
he simply said , only answering the third question will take a MUSLIM to jannah
which means even a he be a believer if he does not answer the third question then he goes to hell
Quote:
Look, I do not mind celebrating the birth of the prophet, I celebrate my own birth annyway, so why not the prophet, however if I put the religion of Allah into the picture then celebrating my own birth is nothing but the joy and fun of the life of this world, celebrating the birth of the prophet however must be all about celebrating the blessinng of Allah of sending His Quran to us through such man, so we look for guidance, nothing more and nothing less
However if it can be avoided it may be better because, it may transfer the wrong message for the young children regarding the prophet position through the whole thing, which most likely will lead to a degree of brain washing, considering it is done on every year accompained with a lot of nice sweets for the children.
Take care
celebrating own birthday is one thing and celebrating prophet's birthday is other
non of his companions celebrated it
in fact do they precisely know the date of birth of prophet as we know our birth day
is this equivalent to Christmas
are they competing with Christmas and krishna jayanthi
uh what ever
jazak ALLAH
Mushtaq
You have some very valid points mate, and I tend to agree with you especially with the birth issue
Status: Age: 49 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 36
Post subject:
Quote:
You have some very valid points mate, and I tend to agree with you especially with the birth issue
Cheers
salam brother ahmed
yesterday night at 11P.M IST , i watched the program of Dr.Tahir and the first person who came to mind to talk about this program is you , brother ahmed
as you know
Islamic methodology of solving a problem is by understanding the illat and hikmat of a quranic ayah or a hadith
For example , the ruling regarding making smoking haram is from the
he allows them as lawful At Tayyibaat (i.e. all good and lawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods), and prohibits them as unlawful Al Khabaa?????????????????????¢??ith (i.e. all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons and foods)?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
[al-A?????????????????????¢??raaf 7:157]
As in the fatwa
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/105314
similarly , the fatwa regarding melawd-un-nabi is in the fatwa
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/70317
Similar methodology is adopted
This is the presentation of the rejecters of meelawd-un-nabi
Now lets see the argument of those who favours the celebration of meelawd-un-nabi
that is of Dr.Thahir's argument
I think he got a valid point in his argument because even he is proving by same methodology
He started (or I watched his program from this point) with Monday
As per this hadith
The Book of Fasting (Kitab Al-Sawm)
Muslim :: Book 6 : Hadith 2606
Abu Qatada Ansari (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Massenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about fasting on Monday, whereupon he said: It is (the day) when I was born and revelation was sent down to me.
Funerals (Al-Janaa'iz)
Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 469
Narrated Hisham's father:
Aisha said, "I went to Abu Bakr (during his fatal illness) and he asked me, 'In how many garments was the Prophet shrouded?' She replied, 'In three Sahuliya pieces of white cloth of cotton, and there was neither a shirt nor a turban among them.' Abu Bakr further asked her, 'On which day did the Prophet die?' She replied, 'He died on Monday.' He asked, 'What is today?' She replied, 'Today is Monday.' He added, 'I hope I shall die sometime between this morning and tonight.' Then he looked at a garment that he was wearing during his illness and it had some stains of saffron. Then he said, 'Wash this garment of mine and add two more garments and shroud me in them.' I said, 'This is worn out.' He said, 'A living person has more right to wear new clothes than a dead one; the shroud is only for the body's pus.' He did not die till it was the night of Tuesday and was buried before the morning."
So it is very clear that prophet Mohammed (sAw) was born on Monday and he fasted every Monday making fasting on Monday as a sunnah
As per dr.Tahir, Monday was very auspicious in the case of our prophet as Friday in the case of Adam aslissalam even he started hijr on Monday and entered medina on Monday
And as token of kind gesture, even he fasted on Monday
So, when prophet himself fasted on Monday because he born on Monday it was a type of celebration so when celebrated then why we should not celebrate
Valid point !
Next, he explains further celebrations which prophet himself ordained
For example, he quoted the following hadiths
Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 562
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
The people landed at the land of Thamud called Al-Hijr along with Allah's Apostle and they took water from its well for drinking and kneading the dough with it as well. (When Allah's Apostle heard about it) he ordered them to pour out the water they had taken from its wells and feed the camels with the dough, and ordered them to take water from the well whence the she-camel (of Prophet Salih) used to drink.
Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 561
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
When Allah's Apostle landed at Al-Hijr during the Ghazwa of Tabuk, he ordered his companions not to drink water from its well or reserve water from it. They said, "We have already kneaded the dough with its water. and also filled our bags with its water.'' On that, the Prophet ordered them to throw away the dough and pour out the water.
Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 563
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
When the Prophet passed by (a place called) Al Hijr, he said, "Do not enter the house of those who were unjust to themselves, unless (you enter) weeping, lest you should suffer the same punishment as was inflicted upon them." After that he covered his face with his sheet cloth while he was on the camel-saddle.
Prophets
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 564
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "Do not enter the ruined dwellings of those who were unjust to themselves unless (you enter) weeping, lest you should suffer the same punishment as was inflicted upon them."
Note that prophet himself made his then followers to drink from the pond which sahil alaissalaam?????????????????????¢??s she camel drank
He further pointed out that the water after thousands of year must have been changed but he(prophet) maintained the tradition of salih alassalaam?????????????????????¢??s intact
If prophet himself celebrated that tradition even after thousands of year then why should not we celebrate our prophet?????????????????????¢??s birthday which is just 1400 years old?
Valid point!
Then he went explaining the difference between the rocks
The rock in the toilet is not the rock in the kaba (how illogical, see his lunatic comparison, na auadubilla) and about the Arabic alphabets
If you write a letter in Arabic then it has no values but the same alphabets if written as quranic verses then it status is regarded high
I don?????????????????????¢??t want to quote all the nonsense he compared just a glimpse of it
So what is harm in celebrating the birthday of a man whose name will take you to jannah
Again a valid point!
Finally he concludes
Prophet used to be happy by seeing children wearing new cloths during marriages so celebrating melawd-un-nabi by wearing new cloths eating good food and giving charity will make him happy. If prophet is happy ALLAH is happy
(Don?????????????????????¢??t forget that as per him prophet is still alive)
Pl tell me where he is wrong, see he has perfectly used Islamic methodology in his talk
He derived the illat and hikmat of the hadiths perfectly as in the same way we refute meelaw-un-nabi
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