Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Killing the Apostates
Hello All,
Faith Freedom is a clear cut Anti Islam web site, their cult leader is Dr Ali Sina who deploy all his resources to do one thing in his life which is to attack Islam, Muslims, the Prophet and the Quran, while I agree that he may raise his concerns but with someone who is a clear cut enemy of Allah, it is never a concern rather a clear cut case of attacks, defamations, lies, fabrications and most importantly hatred to all Muslims, I actually like Ali Sina web site for one reason only, I believe he offers freedom of speech not offered on many so called Islamic web sites like FM kindergarten or WhyIslam pre school for example , but it seems that the freedom he is offering was only on purpose to allow all who visit his web site to bash Islam and achieve his main low cause, the problem for them though that they won't be able to handle my freedom of speech if I reply to all of them which I have the time to do if I wish, however after about 300 comments in there I found most of them are a bunch of horny boys and girls, I'm not kiddin really, mostly are a bunch of teenagers who started to be aware of life around 9/11 sort of like 12 to 15 years old at that time, now they are about 17 to 20 years old , at the most 29 years old.
I visited FF today and shared one of my album with them, they replied by trying to corner me in regard to my religion, that is what they always do there if a Muslim raised a thread, a bunch of boys and girls as I told ya, anyway here is the reply I got first:
All_Brains wrote:
Can you please enlighten us and explain the divine wisdom of Islam behind finishing off apostates!
Piscohot (One of my old enemies and a malicious enemy of Islam) joined quick with this comment about FI:
Been there.
A virtual, 'virtual' ghost town ) run by an egomaniac who deletes whatever post he cannot answer or dislike.
Ahmed says:
See, he always lie, I never deleted any comment on my web site but those from TonyC (LU) who only joined FI to defame it (he was not willing to discuss any matter, he is a real clown btw, you can watch him on LU theatre)
I replied to All_Brains question about killing the apostates:
Not before you show me in the Quran where it says to finish off any apostate
hadith evidences are not admissible
Thanks
I replied to my old enemy Piscohot:
Of course I know you have been there, but hey it is not that ghost town, hahaha again don't lie piss and btw the people like ya are not welcome there
my web site was only launched on the 19th last month and since then I'm gettin over a 1000 hit a day this means so far my site has over 41000 hits , that is impressive for a newly launched site
we will see how FI will be in about 2 years
again piss you are not welcome there
Piscohot replied to me:
I am not surprised. Considering the number of times I have exposed you as a liar, here and on LU. Remember?
I replied to him:
No I don't remember
can you remind me?
Piscohot replied :
Sure. I'll pop by your site once in a while and remind the people there that they are visiting a site created by a habitual liar. :*)[/
I responded:
Yeh yeh yeh
I know you are a professional in defaming masses of people, look I have a very strong moderators team that will surely moderate your defamations, however I will ask them to treat you kindly and leave them, but please don't keep repeating them and i ask you to come with respect to FI main cause which is exposing the flawed Muslims but as you know that the EOI won't escape me on FI, all will be exposed including A S, I really hope he join and both of us start a new era of religious debating, but I'm sure he dares not to do so with A B
Cheers piss
All_Brains replied to me:
As manner of fact there is no mention of this in Quran, but as we both know Quran did not address so many things and Haiths and Sunna completed most ofthe Islamic rules.
Now, based on the above you obviously don't believe in all of the hadiths?
Is this correct?
Then I replied to All_Brains as follow after breaking his comment:
All_Brains wrote:
As manner of fact there is no mention of this in Quran,
Here we go
see bro, I know what I'm talking about
All_Brains wrote:
but as we both know Quran did not address so many things
Not really many things, in fact the Quran addressed all things, for example, the Quran told us about the Salat zillions of times, it also stressed its importance and the punishment for those who will not do it, however it didn't explain to us how to do it BUT and this is a big BUT, Allah told us in the Qurna that He taught Mohammad 3 things:
1) Al Kitab (The book)
2) Al Hikmah (The Wisdom)
3) Other things that Mohammad didn't know before
Now Mohammad was ordered in the Quran to deliver those three things exactly to us:
1) Al Kitab (The book)
2) Al Hikmah (The Wisdom)
3) Other things that believers didn't know before
Therefore the Salat must fall under "Other things that believers didn't know before exactly as Mohammad didn't know it before" because it can't fall under "The book nor the wisdom"
Now there are many things that don't fall under the book nor the Wisdom other than Salat, but why Salat that I will follow its hadith in how to perform it?, BECAUSE the Salat is confirmed by the Quran, i.e. the hadith MUST be confirmed by the Quran and the common sense (if you or the Muslims don't mind) for me to accept it as a mere human teaching and nothing more
Allah words qualify the humans words, it can't be the other way around as many flawed sunni muslims think
Therefore you can't consider me a totally hadith rejector rather I accept the hadith that pass two criteria, and this how I have been all my life despite been raised between the sunni:
1) The Quran
2) the common sense
if it fails any of the above then I will quickly throw that hadith in the rubbish bin with no fear or hesitation
For the apostates issue,
Firstly killing an apostate conflicts with the following:
1) the common sense because a freewill was given by Allah to that person to believe or not to believe
2) the Quran, because the Quran clearly shows the contrary to killing an ex muslim (this is a thread I will create later on my web site and will add a link to it here if you will be interested to read it), i thank you because you will be the one who encouraged me to create it on my web site
All_Brains wrote:
and Haiths and Sunna completed most ofthe Islamic rules.
This is only the claim of the confused muslims and also the enemy of islam, there is no such thing in the Quran that says we should accept laws from any other enetity but Allah, what I accept from the prophet are not laws rather practises like Salat, Zakat Fasting and Hajj, nothing more and nothing less
All_Brains wrote:
Now, based on the above you obviously don't believe in all of the hadiths?
Is this correct?
Of course, but I will still be carefull in using the word "Believe"
because I only believe in the Quran that it is the words of Allah, the hadith is nothing but mere teaching from a sort of a teacher, that teacher teachings must comply with the two criteria mentioned earlier or it will have no value whatsoever
Thanks
Now I would like to show everyone that the Quran clearly talked about those who believe then disbelieve, which means apostates, we will see that the Quran never mentioned or stated to cause any harm to them as Ali Sina and his boys and girls gang manipulate and lie on his web site.
Firstly the freewill was given for anyone to believe or not to believe:
Say, The truth is from your Lord: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on! [The Quran ; 18:29]
وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاء فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاء فَلْيَكْفُرْ إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ نَارًا أَحَاطَ بِهِمْ سُرَادِقُهَا وَإِن يَسْتَغِيثُوا يُغَاثُوا بِمَاء كَالْمُهْلِ يَشْوِي الْوُجُوهَ بِئْسَ الشَّرَابُ وَسَاءتْ مُرْتَفَقًا (29)
-> See, Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it), for those who reject though, they were promised with harm but by Allah not but any human : for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
For those who believed then rejected, again we see that the harm promised to them is by Allah not by any other human:
90: Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray.
91: Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers. [The Quran ; 3:90-91]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُواْ كُفْرًا لَّن تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الضَّآلُّونَ (90)
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ وَمَاتُواْ وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْ أَحَدِهِم مِّلْءُ الأرْضِ ذَهَبًا وَلَوِ افْتَدَى بِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن نَّاصِرِينَ (91)
-> We can clearly read above about the apostates : Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief and here is one of their punishment : , their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray., we can read in the following verse that Allah talked about the moment of their death as kafiroon who disbelieved after their belief : Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers., again there is no mention to any harm by any human
Imagin those apostates kept doing it, i.e. they believed then disbelieved then believed then disbelieved, we see the Quran still talking about them:
137: Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path.
138: Announce to the hypocrites that they shall have a painful chastisement: [The Quran ; 4:137-138]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ ثُمَّ كَفَرُواْ ثُمَّ آمَنُواْ ثُمَّ كَفَرُواْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُواْ كُفْرًا لَّمْ يَكُنِ اللّهُ لِيَغْفِرَ لَهُمْ وَلاَ لِيَهْدِيَهُمْ سَبِيلاً (137)
بَشِّرِ الْمُنَافِقِينَ بِأَنَّ لَهُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا (138)
-> See, Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief,, and here is the punishment Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path., in fact Allah told Mohammad what to do with them exactly, nothing more than saying: Announce to the hypocrites that they shall have a painful chastisement:, of course they are hypocrites if they : believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief
Clear from all the above that anyone has the freewill to believe and disbelieve without any harm imposed on them by any human
It is not strange to see the enemy of Islam use an incident that may have happened during one of the Khalifas Abu Bakr who followed the prophet when a large group of Muslims disbelieved, then went on the attack, i.e. they were dealt with as attackers to the religion, i.e. the enemy of the religion, the enemy of God according to the Quran and those must be fought because they deploy their resources to prevent Allah (God forbids) from delivering His message to the others who may accept it and save themselves an assured doom on the JD
We welcome the apostates but only if they don't attack or lie about the religion because if they do then they are not considered apostates any more rather clear cut enemy and any of them must be dealt with accordingly which is to fight them and there is no question that this fight by the believers must be in the cause of Allah
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 12 Oct, 2007 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Thu 16 Nov, 2006 11:02 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
bugmenot_666 wrote:
The only one lying is you Ahmed. Quran 4:88-89 says kill the apostates.
Hello all
Another manipulated manipulator that the Muslims have to deal with, it's revolting the amount of ignorance, stupidity manipulation, deception, fabrications they possess, it serves no truth rather their own low desires of choosing to be enemies of Allah
Ignorant bug_menot_666 alleges that 4:89-90 is talking about killing the apostates Al Murtudeen, however the verses are talking about something else, it is talking about the hypocrites Al Munafiqiin, hahahahah another case of self inflicting harm in the foot using a gun, hehe, let's pick up the verses just from the one before it, 4:88-90,
88- What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.
89- They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
90- Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them. [The Quran ; 4:88-90]
فَمَا لَكُمْ فِي الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِئَتَيْنِ وَاللّهُ أَرْكَسَهُم بِمَا كَسَبُواْ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَهْدُواْ مَنْ أَضَلَّ اللّهُ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ اللّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ سَبِيلاً (88)
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا (89)
إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىَ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَآؤُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَن يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُواْ قَوْمَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْاْ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلاً (90)
Ahmed says:
The verses above are talking about the hypocrites, about those who claim to be Muslims but they are not, the verses are talking about an incident during the prophet time where a number of hypocrites tried to sway the true believers from the right path, the true believers could not figure out if they were believers or not, so Allah is telling the true believers the following:
-> Verse 88, What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, see how it is talking about the hypocrites, as well it is telling us the true believers were divided, some think of those hypocrites as believers and the rest think of them as kafiroon, the true believers tried to guide those hypocrites back to the right path but Allah is telling them that they can't : while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him., see, they can't, on the other hand we see no aggression from the Muslims towards those hypocrites rather THEY TRIED TO HELP THEM BACK TO THE PATH.
The problem above that those hypocrites TRIED TO SWAY THE TRUE BELIVERS FROM THE RIGHT PATH by saying non sense about the religion which they also claim to follow:
-> Verse 89, They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike;, how bloody clear is that?, i. bloody e. they became the enemy of Allah by trying to sway the true believers from Allah path, they didn't even leave the religion rather they claimed to be followers but things should be done their invented way, and those are one of the parties that we should never take them as helpers nor friends: therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way;, i.e. until they follow the religion the way Allah says not their own way, i.e. they still claim to be believers not bloody apostates as the manipulated and ignorant enemy of Allah allege, if those hypocrites insist in causing discord between the believers then:but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
-> Verse 90, now the true believers are advised that they should not fight a specific party : Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance,, obviously those who help a party to us can not be considered hypocrites that is why we are prevented to fight them, we should not also fight another group of them, it is those who are tired of fighting any more, they surrendered : or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; what a great message that is, i.e. if the enemy wanted to stop the fight we should also stop the fight. Here is another great message regarding those hypocrites who are tired of fighting, sort of they surrendered as I said, Allah does not want the believers to think that the hypocrites surrendered due to the believers power rather due to the power of Allah and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; i.e. they would have never surrendered, here is the third great message in this noble verse: therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them. see you bunch of manipulated ignorant enemy of Allah, if you stop fighting us and seek peace Allah not given us a way against you, here it is again in big letters:
and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.
This requires a big Slam Dunk to be honest, hold on
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 12 Oct, 2007 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Mon 19 Feb, 2007 6:42 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
CamperBoy wrote:
I cannot find any verse in Quran which says so....
Any hadiths or verses which supports the claim?
Hello CamperBoy
Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk have invented the Hudood offences (offences which are punished with death), this invented human Sharia includes the offence of apostasy (Irtidad), according to them is punishable by death.
Under the Hudood Punishments of the Invented Human Sharia Laws, an apostate or murtad must be killed.
There is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran. According to Allah, in the Quran a person can believe then disbelve then believe then even increase in disbelieve:
137: Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path.
138: Announce to the hypocrites that they shall have a painful chastisement: [The Quran ; 4:137-138]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ ثُمَّ كَفَرُواْ ثُمَّ آمَنُواْ ثُمَّ كَفَرُواْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُواْ كُفْرًا لَّمْ يَكُنِ اللّهُ لِيَغْفِرَ لَهُمْ وَلاَ لِيَهْدِيَهُمْ سَبِيلاً (137)
بَشِّرِ الْمُنَافِقِينَ بِأَنَّ لَهُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا (138)
-> See, Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief,, and here is the punishment Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path., in fact Allah told Mohammad what to do with them exactly, nothing more than saying: Announce to the hypocrites that they shall have a painful chastisement:, of course they are hypocrites if they : believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief:
The above must be the consequence of givng the freewill to believe or disbelieve (logically speaking), this freewill given regarding belief was stated clearly in the Quran:
Say, The truth is from your Lord: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on! [The Quran ; 18:29]
وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاء فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاء فَلْيَكْفُرْ إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ نَارًا أَحَاطَ بِهِمْ سُرَادِقُهَا وَإِن يَسْتَغِيثُوا يُغَاثُوا بِمَاء كَالْمُهْلِ يَشْوِي الْوُجُوهَ بِئْسَ الشَّرَابُ وَسَاءتْ مُرْتَفَقًا (29)
-> See, Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it), for those who reject though, they were promised with harm but by Allah not but any human : for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
However, Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk are not happy with Allah clear words above regarding the apostates that their reckoning is only with Allah on the JD, they belief that the apostate must be killed, so they worked hard to justify, what they did is simple, Let's steal it from the Bible then inject it in a heresay hadith and brainwash the believers that the hadith is as holy as the Quran. THEY SUCCEEDED, In many Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Malaysia - if you are NOT a follower of the accepted mainstream Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk sect you can be jailed and fined. In Saudi Arabia the Shiahs are discriminated against. In Pakistan from time to time the Shiahs are just shot and killed by the Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk. Of course the Shiahs also return the blood from time to time. It's part of the day to day life in Iraq and Lebanon at this moment.
The false belief among the Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk that they must kill the apostates has no basis in the Quran. It is another false belief stolen from the Bible and then passed off as the teaching of the prophet, sunnah of the prophet etc. Hers is the evidences of their theft from the Bible :
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�???????Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.
Here according to the book of Leviticus in the Bible anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death. He shall be stoned to death. [Leviticus 24:16]
Here is more of this �??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�???????let's kill the apostates' insanity from the Bible :
But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you. [Deuteronomy13:5]
According to the Bible anyone who thinks differently (dreamer of dreams) shall be killed. This is the real teaching of the Bible. Just kill people who do not wish to believe like you anymore.
Here is yet more killing from the Bible :
If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, �??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�???????Let us go and serve other gods' you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. [Deuteronomy 13:6-10]
The Bible and the invented Sharia Laws of the Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk do not allow any freedom of belief. According to the Bible and the Sharia Laws of the Ahl Al Al Sunnah and Shirk, a person should be put to death when he changes from belief to disbelief. It is clear again that the Muftis of Ahl Al Sunnah and Shirk reject the teachings of Allah in the Quran. Instead they prefer to plagiarise Biblical teachings and pass it off as the teachings of the prophet through nothing but heresay that we should consider holy, yeh right.
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) run by an egomaniac who deletes whatever post he cannot answer or dislike.
