Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Would be ever peace between Sunnis and Shais?
sum wrote:
After 1400 years, the fighting, killing and destruction of mosques continues
But the number of Muslims increases along with the number of Mosques somehow, don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you agree?, well it sounds like you are going to pick on the division of Islam through their man made sects which is fine with me, I actually do agree with you and I can assure you that the Quran also agrees with us, as I will explain
sum wrote:
Is Muhammad/Allah responsible for this?
Here we go, twisting it to serve your low desires, see what I just said above that the Quran also agrees with us, i.e. the names mentioned above agree with us, so please stop twisting after seeing the evidences
sum wrote:
If one reads Abul Kasem`s article plus ahadith then one can only conclude that this Shia/Sunni sectarian fighting and killing will go on for ever more.
Exactly, now let me ask you, you said if you read the following:
1, Abul Kasem`s article
2, ahadith
Where is the Quran?
Why you dropped the Quran out of the picture?
Or I may say, do you know that the Quran agrees with us or what, that is why you didnt mention it?
I think you don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t, you are just one of those ready to be programmed ignorant who is willing to submit to any human BS
Let me sum this bit for you mister sum so you may get it this time:
The teaching of Islam is not based on Abul Kasem`s article nor your ahadiths that you cherry pick from it according to your low desires
The teaching of Islam is only based on the Quran and any ahadiths that are qualified by the Quran not qualified by your mister Abu Al Qasim low desires
Dismissed because I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t read URLs posted in comments directed to me, however I can see where you are coming from and as I said the Quran agrees with you and me regarding the division of Islam, let me elaborate:
The following verse clearly warns the believers from dividing their religion:
Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs: For them is a dreadful penalty,- [The Quran ; 3:105]
وَلاَ تَكُونُواْ كَالَّذِينَ تَفَرَّقُواْ وَاخْتَلَفُواْ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَأُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ (105)
[The Quran ; 3:105]
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but if they don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t listen and surely many of the so called believers didn't in the form of sectarian Islam as we all know, then this is what they will get from Allah ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? For them is a dreadful penalty????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see A DREADFUL PENALY, i.e. those whom you meet and claim to be following a special Islamic sect MUST BE PUNISHED by Allah according to 3:105 and the punishment is going to be dreadful.
The Quran is even clearer showing us that those who divide their religion are not really the true followers of Mohammad:
Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did. [The Quran ; 6:159]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُواْ دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُواْ شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُواْ يَفْعَلُونَ (159)
[The Quran ; 6:159]
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُواْ دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُواْ شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. Mohammad has nothing to do with them, i.e. they are not following him, they are only following what they invented and every sect is rejoicing with that they invented for themselves, this fact is clearly stated in another location:
30- Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
31- Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists
32- Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect rejoicing in what they had with them [The Quran ; 30:30-32]
فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ (30)
مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (31)
مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ (32)
-> Here is the order to only hold the religion of Allah :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this upright religion is sent to us from Allah in the Quran, it is not the BS human made and called it sects nor any teaching that incline any division in the religion like the 4 Mazaahib for example, I was astonished to find many westerners who reverted to Islam and they boost about which Mazhab they follow, i.e. from day one of their Islam they are mislead by some confused humans who already been divided for years and years
-> This up right religion of Allah is nothing more than :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and that????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s indeed what Islam is in very short words
-> And here the fact that we see it today between the sunni and shia of rejoicing with what they invented for themselves while rejecting what the others sects invented for themselves, :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect rejoicing in what they had with them????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, indeed this statement is valid to all Islam sects who divided their upright religion into numerous sects, and we know well that they are not following Mohammad as 6:159 told us and we also know that they will have a dreadful penalty as 3:105 told us.
Indeed turning any religion into sects is a clear cut contradiction within the followers of all these sects because a true religion sent by the one God is all about uniting humanity under His convenant and this is exactly what Allah told:
And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦ [The Quran ; 3:103]
وَاعْتَصِمُواْ بِحَبْلِ اللّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلاَ تَفَرَّقُواْ ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦. (103)
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? but that is not what all Islamic sects do as we all know
Therefore, yes the Quran agrees with both of us that those people are screwed in the head and possibly killing each other is one of the punishments Allah made them do, so they may wake up before one hell of a distressful day when they will know that they were not following the prophet and therefore they earned a dreadful penalty
What else I can say?
Oh well let me see the Quran verses you brought in to support your argument which was nothing but a case of confusion because I proved to you that the Quran is against this man made division of Islam
sum wrote:
Here are those verses that had laid the foundation of cannibalism in Islam:
The foundation of cannibalism in Islam !!!!
What a load of ignorance and non sense, the above statement alone is enough for me to dismiss the rest of your comment, because you have proven to be ignorant as you didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t know that those confused Muslims who divide their religion by calling themselves sunni, shia or whatever are not really following the upright Islam as 6:159 told us and sure according to 3:105 they will face a dreadful penalty
Quote:
009.107And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.
Quote:
009.108Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure.
Quote:
009.109Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety to Allah and His good pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? and it doth crumble to pieces with him, into the fire of Hell. And Allah guideth not people that do wrong.
Quote:
009.110The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
sum wrote:
These verses, when taken in true Islamic spirit, call for the devastation of rival mosques.
A clear cut lie, because the true Quarn spirit, the upright religion is simply as follow:
And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦
[The Quran ; 3:103]
وَاعْتَصِمُواْ بِحَبْلِ اللّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلاَ تَفَرَّقُواْ ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦. (103)
This true spirit of Islam is nothing more than :
31- Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists
[The Quran ; 30:31]
مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (31)
Indeed the verse posted above exposes any one of those sects who divided the religion then built mosques to promote their self made ideologies and fight other sects, remember what the Quran told us ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????every sect is rejoicing with what they have????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, so Allah is telling us to watch out for those fake mosques and even warned the prophet from praying in it, that is why I don't pray in Lakemba Mosque under Hilaly leadership, because what I have seen there clearly violates the above verses from sura 9, let me walk you through it using Shakir translation because I don't trust any translation by the mostly manipulated boys and girls on FFI:
107- And those who built a masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before; and they will certainly swear: We did not desire aught but good; and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.
108- Never stand in it; certainly a masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it; in it are men who love that they should be purified; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.
109- Is he, therefore, better who lays his foundation on fear of Allah and (His) good pleasure, or he who lays his foundation on the edge of a cracking hollowed bank, so it broke down with him into the fire of hell; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
110- The building which they have built will ever continue to be a source of disquiet in their hearts, except that their hearts get cut into pieces; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
[The Quran ; 9:107-110]
وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُواْ مَسْجِدًا ضِرَارًا وَكُفْرًا وَتَفْرِيقًا بَيْنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَإِرْصَادًا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ مِن قَبْلُ وَلَيَحْلِفَنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَا إِلاَّ الْحُسْنَى وَاللّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّهُمْ لَكَاذِبُونَ (107)
لاَ تَقُمْ فِيهِ أَبَدًا لَّمَسْجِدٌ أُسِّسَ عَلَى التَّقْوَى مِنْ أَوَّلِ يَوْمٍ أَحَقُّ أَن تَقُومَ فِيهِ فِيهِ رِجَالٌ يُحِبُّونَ أَن يَتَطَهَّرُواْ وَاللّهُ يُحِبُّ الْمُطَّهِّرِينَ (108)
أَفَمَنْ أَسَّسَ بُنْيَانَهُ عَلَى تَقْوَى مِنَ اللّهِ وَرِضْوَانٍ خَيْرٌ أَم مَّنْ أَسَّسَ بُنْيَانَهُ عَلَىَ شَفَا جُرُفٍ هَارٍ فَانْهَارَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ وَاللّهُ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ (109)
لاَ يَزَالُ بُنْيَانُهُمُ الَّذِي بَنَوْاْ رِيبَةً فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ إِلاَّ أَن تَقَطَّعَ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَاللّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (110)
-> Verse 107, clearly talking about all these sects and their sects oriented mosques which only promote their own self made ideologies while attacking all other sects, this applies to all sects of Islam:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And those who built a masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the problem is all these sects are rejoicing with what they have, i.e. they think that they are the right sect and the others are wrong, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and they will certainly swear: We did not desire aught but good;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? see how confused they are?, but that is no execuse, they are nothing but liars, all of those sectarians :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Verse 108, clearly a warning to the prophet and any true believer for that matter not to enter any of these sectarian mosques ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Never stand in it;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, then Allah is advising us which mosques that we should stand in: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? certainly a masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? see, founded on piety from the very first day, these proper mosques that should be visited by the true believers are described as :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? in it are men who love that they should be purified; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see, what should happen in these mosques that the true believers should visit, its visitors are men who love that they should be purified
-> Verse 109, Allah is even making it clearer by giving us a metaphor of these two types of mosques, let me remind you with them first:
1) A masjid built to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before (true believers should never stand in this Masjid)
2) A masjid founded on piety from the very first day; in it are men who love that they should be purified (this is the masjid that true believers should stand in to purify themselves because Allah loves those who purify themselves.)
The metaphor is as follow describing the above two :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Is he, therefore, better who lays his foundation on fear of Allah and (His) good pleasure, or he who lays his foundation on the edge of a cracking hollowed bank, so it broke down with him into the fire of hell;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Clearly, the first type of masjid that the true believers should never stand in is equal to ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? foundation on the edge of a cracking hollowed bank, so it broke down with him into the fire of hell????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? while the second type which is the one that the true believers should stand in to purify themselves is equal to: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? foundation on fear of Allah and (His) good pleasure????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and this fear of Allah is nothing more than purifying the self
Obviously all those who visit the first type of Masjid are those unguided ones as we read :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and Allah does not guide the unjust people.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? i.e. they are unjust, any sectarian Mosque must fall under this category
-> Verse 110, yet Allah is still condemning all these sectarian mosques that were only built based on the division of the true religion and were never built on Taqwa of Allah from day one:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The building which they have built will ever continue to be a source of disquiet in their hearts, except that their hearts get cut into pieces; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. they are doomed and they will receive a dreadful penalty from Allah
I really can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t see your point sum, can you see that Allah is clearly exposing all those confused Muslims or are you still blind, or possibly manipulated or maybe programmed?
sum wrote:
The most important question is:
Oh yeh, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s see what is the most important question
sum wrote:
which mosques are genuinely Islamic and which mosques are not so Islamic?
Easy, it is those mosques which are not built to divide the believers and are only based on Taqwa of Allah from day one, i.e. its foundation is only the fear of Allah, in these Mosques you will only find true believers who only purify themselves not bloody attack the Americans and the Israelis and other Muslims
sum wrote:
Since there is no central authority in Islam to decide on this,
BS, I have shown you the authority above from the Quran.
sum wrote:
it naturally becomes a moot-point, to say the least. It is therefore, a free-market in Islam when it comes to destruction and bloodshed.
Dismissed
sum wrote:
[i]Muslim (Rahimahullah) relates the following Hadith on the authority of Ibn Shurayh (Allah be pleased with him): 'After I am gone, there will come days of corruption and turmoil. When you see people damaging the unity of the Community of Muhammad (Peace be upon him), you must fight them, whoever they may happen to be.'
Dismissed
sum wrote:
Do the muslims on this forum agree with Allah and the hadith that the killing should continue until there is unity?
sum
Stop twisting and being shifty mister sum, you can NOT join Allah with any entity unless the other entity is a god like Him, i.e. please stop resorting to the Tutty Fruity fallacy by mixing apples with mangos, there is no such thing as Allah and hadith, this is only in your Barbie world of illusions, therefore I have to break it up into two separate questions as follow:
1) Do the muslims on this forum agree with Allah, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦.
True believers don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t agree with Allah mister ignorant, true believers submit to Allah regardless they like it or not, do you get it or what?
First question is dismissed
2) Do the muslims on this forum agree with the hadith?
True Muslims should only agree with the hadith that is qualified by the Quran and the common sense, so if that hadith you posted contradicts the Quran or the common sense then it has to be dismissed, however I won????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t look at this because I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t discuss the corrupt or the true hadith on any forum , i.e.:
Second question is dismissed
Salam
PS: This is not a debate therefore any stupid comments by the itchy boys and girls on FFI will be dismissed in advance _________________ http://free-islam.com
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Mon 15 Jan, 2007 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total
Posted:
Mon 15 Jan, 2007 1:04 am
SlaveofAllaah Site Admin
Status: Age: 42 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: 184 Location: Riyadh
Post subject:
Great one brother. These people forget the Shia and Sunni were initially, political division later on through the generations, became religious.
Well, we are to be blamed for it. Just follow the Quran if not Arabic atleast translation for the non-arabs, and the Saheeh Hadith(As mentioned Qualifies with the Quran).
Well overall, these people talk like as if they will help us with the shia-sunni fight why do they forget this is politicised its common sense. Well, just blatant false.
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